Ruling takes aim at Church

[ZxM]

if the church hasnt been sued and forced to make women priests then how exactly will the state force the church to give gays a sacramental marriage?

 

[irishpatrick]

Sorry folks, I saw the following article and thought it went very well with my views posted here:

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MADISON, Wis. — A Wisconsin state law is forcing the Madison (Wis.) Catholic Diocese this month to begin offering its employees insurance coverage for birth control.

However, a diocesan spokesman said employees will be warned against using the benefit and that open defiance of Catholic teaching on the issue could ultimately lead to termination.

St. Mary’s Hospital in Madison has notified employees that it, too, soon will be required for the first time to cover contraception.

wcfcourier.com/news/local/article_0b904262-a4e4-11df-bde9-001cc4c002e0.html

 

[Dale_M]

Sorry folks, I saw the following article and thought it went very well with my views posted here

Would you be willing to start a thread with this news story? I think its worth discussing in some detail.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

Greetings all! This is a good discussion. May I add my view? What I see happening next is the 9th Circuit upholding Walker’s decision. If it then goes to the SCOTUS one of 2 things will happen. They will refuse to hear it, which is what I’m betting on - I don’t think Roberts has the guts - OR they will hear it and the current makeup of the court will leave the ruling as it stands. So either way we wind up with a ‘follow-up’ to Roe v. Wade. The Church will do what it has to do to be true to itself. It will not fold to the fad of homosexuality. It’s gone underground before, it can do so again. In some ways I already experience this living in a part of the country with a very small Catholic population. We’re cool with it. The Spirit is alive and well! Be Not Afraid!!:getholy:

At the moment SCOTUS is exhibiting a 5 to 4 tendency toward conservatism so I’d be cautious about anticipating its ruling, if it hears the case.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Thats how it is now. But things change. After all, the supreme court judges don’t have to look at the actual words of the constitution anymore, they can interpret them to mean new things.

That’s not true. Obviously people are going to disagree how to interpret or apply certain aspects of the Constitution and relevent case law, but let’s not pretend they willy nilly make stuff up.

In Canada we had the government summon a bishop to a human rights council because he asked a homosexual to not be an altar server. Before that, we all thought the government wouldn’t get involved in church matters. Also, a Catholic school was forced to allow two gay high school kids to attent the prom together. Also, Catholic schools are being forced to teach a state-imposed course on world religions.

In the US we have a pretty iron clad 1st Amendment Right. The KKK has been to court on a regular basis and wins on a regular basis.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

If it then goes to the SCOTUS one of 2 things will happen. They will refuse to hear it, which is what I’m betting on - I don’t think Roberts has the guts -

I understand where you’re coming from on this. However I respectfully disagree for a very particular reason: the CA judge specifically used the US Constitution as his basis. That has broad implications for how other courts will rule on this matter. Had the CA judge limited his justification to the CA state constitution then I would have agreed with you.

OR they will hear it and the current makeup of the court will leave the ruling as it stands. So either way we wind up with a ‘follow-up’ to Roe v. Wade.

It all comes down to Justice Kennedy. This is a real toss up. While he can veer off to the left on occasion, he does seem to like to situate himself to the right.

The Church will do what it has to do to be true to itself. It will not fold to the fad of homosexuality. It’s gone underground before, it can do so again. In some ways I already experience this living in a part of the country with a very small Catholic population. We’re cool with it. The Spirit is alive and well! Be Not Afraid!!:getholy:

I see no need for the Church to go underground any time soon.

 

[phoenixrrt62]

The bigger problem will be when the churches are legally forced to marry those “couples” in their churches. You can trust that will happen regardless of what our Constitution says.

I would agree with you that there should be a clear separation between church and state, and no church should be forced to marry someone according to the rules and rites of ANY church.

 

[Los_Angeles]

Only the Catholic Church has the authority to marry a man and woman that wish to be married in the Catholic Church, thus creating a Catholic marriage.

There is the threat of the creation of something completely different a new class called “married” by militant homosexuals.

Married VS. “Married” Homosexual

Again its all a play on words.

First they tried to change the meaning of rainbows.

Then the meaning of “Gay” no longer means happy.

Now they want the word “Marriage”

Do you see the pattern?

Fight back! Use two words to describe it, call it for what it is — Homosexual “marriage”

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church let it be anathema.

 

[irishpatrick]

I would agree with you that there should be a clear separation between church and state, and no church should be forced to marry someone according to the rules and rites of ANY church.

It is more than that, religions and people of faith are supposed to be able to freely live their faith! Freely, not prevented in any place in their lives–that is what “freedom of religion” means! It means we are not supposed to be forced to live our faith only in our homes or churches, we are supposed to be free to live our faith throughout our lives without persecution of any kind! Yet, the left could not care less about those constiutional rights, they are attacking them piece-by-piece and they ARE winning.

 

[wisdomseeker]

It is more than that, religions and people of faith are supposed to be able to freely live their faith! Freely, not prevented in any place in their lives–that is what “freedom of religion” means! It means we are not supposed to be forced to live our faith only in our homes or churches, we are supposed to be free to live our faith throughout our lives without persecution of any kind! Yet, the left could not care less about those constiutional rights, they are attacking them piece-by-piece and they ARE winning.

this was when everybody was Catholic. everyone agree. today, it is no longer the case because of so many religions, we no longer are able to live our faith the way used to be. protestants preaches one thing and do not allow Catholics to live and teach the Faith to all. muslims, Jewish, hindu and so forth. all this is a hinders our Faith from spread to all. we have become just a group among many. that is how the world view the Catholic Faith. our Lord’s plan was one religion. all man was to come to learn from His Church. but too many opposition to this has hurt our Faith and will continue to do so as all these religion continue to grow more and more powerfull. if the governament is not Catholic then we can expect that he will work against us and not for us. the mentality is that since so many have to come to believe that our religion is just that a religion, we cannot expect much of from the government. God never said that governments are not to be Catholic. the desire of God is that even governments are to be with the Church. but with protestants protesting against the Church constantly, it is almost impossible for the Catholic Church to evangelize all men.

 

[irishpatrick]

this was when everybody was Catholic. everyone agree. today, it is no longer the case because of so many religions, we no longer are able to live our faith the way used to be. protestants preaches one thing and do not allow Catholics to live and teach the Faith to all. muslims, Jewish, hindu and so forth. all this is a hinders our Faith from spread to all. we have become just a group among many. that is how the world view the Catholic Faith. our Lord’s plan was one religion. all man was to come to learn from His Church. but too many opposition to this has hurt our Faith and will continue to do so as all these religion continue to grow more and more powerfull. if the governament is not Catholic then we can expect that he will work against us and not for us. the mentality is that since so many have to come to believe that our religion is just that a religion, we cannot expect much of from the government. God never said that governments are not to be Catholic. the desire of God is that even governments are to be with the Church. but with protestants protesting against the Church constantly, it is almost impossible for the Catholic Church to evangelize all men.

I think I must have written my post incorrectly. I am not saying everyone should be Catholic, I am saying every Catholic should be able to be Catholic throughout their lives. A Catholic who is a pharmacist should not have to legally forced to fill birth control scripts.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I think I must have written my post incorrectly. I am not saying everyone should be Catholic, I am saying every Catholic should be able to be Catholic.

i totally agree with you on this. but how can we if we have so many opposing our Faith? how can we expect to live our Faith when so many also wants to have their way too?

i hope i am not confusing you.

 

[Nix89]

Now they want the word “Marriage”

Do you see the pattern?

Fight back! Use two words to describe it, call it for what it is — Homosexual “marriage”

I agree with you totally - I have no problem with them forming a legal contract with each other, just DON’T call it a marriage because that’s NOT what it is. Writer Anthony Esolen appeared on Life on the Rock (EWTN) a while back and on this topic he coined the word ‘pseudogamy’ which I thought summed it up very precisely. What they are attempting is a fake!

 

[irishpatrick]

i totally agree with you on this. but how can we if we have so many opposing our Faith? how can we expect to live our Faith when so many also wants to have their way too?

i hope i am not confusing you.

That has been my point lately. We are just seeing the beginning of true persecutions against the Church and Catholics.

 

[irishpatrick]

Now they want the word “Marriage”

Do you see the pattern?

Fight back! Use two words to describe it, call it for what it is — Homosexual “marriage”

I agree with you totally - I have no problem with them forming a legal contract with each other, just DON’T call it a marriage because that’s NOT what it is. Writer Anthony Esolen appeared on Life on the Rock (EWTN) a while back and on this topic he coined the word ‘pseudogamy’ which I thought summed it up very precisely. What they are attempting is a fake!

With all respect, they will get the word, they will ge the entire deal.

 

[phoenixrrt62]

It is more than that, religions and people of faith are supposed to be able to freely live their faith! Freely, not prevented in any place in their lives–that is what “freedom of religion” means! It means we are not supposed to be forced to live our faith only in our homes or churches, we are supposed to be free to live our faith throughout our lives without persecution of any kind! Yet, the left could not care less about those constitutional rights, they are attacking them piece-by-piece and they ARE winning.

I am afraid I will pull this topic off thread, but I am compelled to ask…I’m not getting how you are prevented from practicing your faith in general?*** Who***'s persecuting you? American society in general? Liberals? Who?

 

[CatholicGerman]

The religious marriage and the civil marriage will become two separate things, like in some countries.

Which is how it should be. Why the Church wants to have anything to do with civil marriage, is beyond me.

 

[CatholicGerman]

1. No wacky fundamentalist church in the USA has ever been forced to marry interracial couples.

Because the Catholic Church is huge, that’s why. What it does, or doesn’t do, effects so many people that it’s policies cannot be ignored. Some backwoods holy-roller church is irrelevant in the larger political scheme of things. Can you imagine what would have happened if the Mother Church had refused to marry interracial couples? It was, in fact, Catholic acceptance of interracial marriage that has allowed it to become so widespread.

And the Catholic Church is world-wide. The attack wouldn’t even have to start in the US. It could come from somewhere else.

 

[CatholicGerman]

I am sure that was the intent in passing the law. But I am not sure that is how it actually worked in practice.

Of course it didn’t work in practice. People aren’t stupid. You can call it marriage, but we all know that it’s *not *marriage. You can call grape juice “wine”, but without the fermentation, it’s still just… juice.