Meh, I guess I may be more intellectual as people keep telling me. Still, trust me, I’ve done some pretty stupid things that sometimes make it difficult to believe them.
I go to school in Cleveland and occasionally i will go down to Tower City and hang out there. SOmetimes there is a guy at public square who is playing a guitar and with a microphone is trying to evangalize everyone walking by at once. He also has people distributing literature with Cristian basics;
Thank you. That was a very nice thing to say.
You sound like a very kind person.
There’s nothing wrong with saying, “No thank you” or “My beliefs are very personal and I don’t really feel comfortable discussing them here”. I know that I always try to respect that when someone tells me that.
Oh boy do them YouTube street preachers need a lesson from you.
“a fruitful dialog to find the truth?”
Not necessarily. There are some really good open air preachers on YouTube.
Well, first of all, while I’m sure that the OP is describing the situation sincerely and as best as he remembers it, I don’t really feel comfortable judging someone without witnessing them in action for myself.
I’ve found some decent ones, true. Still, it’s always the confrontational ones that get the most online publicity.
Learned that one the hard way, believe me.
Honestly? I used to but now I just really don’t care. No matter what they do or how they choose to do it, I’m still responsible to do what God has called me to do.
And they probably always will. But the Gospel still rolls on.
I respectfully disagree. Impressions can do a lot in shaping a person’s view. Biases that spring from such impression can be hard to crack. If someone tries to present Christianity as all hellfire and brimstone, then don’t be surprised if a lot of people would suddenly start rejecting it because of that. I should know, I’ve got the bad luck to witness atheist rantings as much as fundie rantings (especially given that they’re not seen too far apart than you might think). From what I’ve seen, I can definitely theorize that confrontational preaching is a dangerous and self-shooting method that needs dealing with.
Then how do you reconcile that with scripture, which says that the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation?
Jesus spoke quite a bit about Hellfire and brimstone and people rejected it. Why should it be any different for us?
Whoa! Didn’t see that coming, particularly after I’ve tried so hard to be respectful to you.
Then deal with it.
If it truly did have that power in the way that you’re implying then anyone who hears a Bible verse would be moved to accept it, regardless if it’s done gently or in your face. Clearly reality dictates otherwise.
He didn’t do so on the same level as these people. Let’s compare the ratio of how much Christ spoke of hell with the rest of the more wonderful things He taught.
How am I being disrespectful? I’m merely saying that I’ve heard as many atheist ramblings with regards as to how Christians do nothing but spread fear of hellfire and brimstone and how that’s exactly what the fundies are doing.
I do when the opportunity presents itself.
So then, are you saying that the Bible is wrong when it says that the Gospel truly does have that power?
Nope. Not what the Bible says at all. The Bible says that the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, but also makes it clear that not everyone will hear the Gospel.
First of all, Christ spoke about Hell quite frequently and very graphically. He made it very clear to sinners that if they did not repent, then their fate would be an eternity in a literal Hell.
Calling us “fundies” isn’t exactly a show of respect.
That’s what evangelism is.
Are you suggesting that some people are predestined or have it in their inherent nature to reject the Gospel? If so, so much for free will.
I did not say that. I merely said that too much emphasis on fear-mongering tactics such as preaching hellfire and brimstone isn’t going to do you any good. Not even on the long run. Furthermore, if you’re so confident that Christ spoke frequently about hell compared to everything else, do a little math for me and compare the percentage of how much He spoke of hell in the Gospels.
“Us”? I think you already have enough common sense to know I’m not referring to individuals like you. Furthermore, I despise political correctness so please have a thicker skin.
On the contrary. One does not have to stand on a soapbox to spread the Gospel. Living via example is just one good alternative.
Foreknowledge does not negate free will.
What you’re talking about is called pragmatism and we don’t base our evangelism on pragmatism, but on what the word of God says. If the word of God says that we’re to warn people about Hell and call them to repent, then it really doesn’t matter whether or not you think it “does us good”. God tells us to go, we go, He takes care of the rest.
First of all, you’re misquoting me. I never said anything about the frequency of which He spoke of Hell in relation to other topics. I simply said that Jesus (and, by extension, the rest of the Bible) spoke of it frequently.
Go into a black neighborhood and throw the “N-word” around a couple of times and then explain to them, “Oh, but I didn’t mean you”. Let me know how that works out for you.
I despise political correctness, too. But that doesn’t give me an excuse to be rude to you.
Actually, it isn’t a good alternative for a couple of reasons.
Yes it does. Look it up in the dictionary. It is synonymous with foresightedness. You can’t get any more unpredictable than free will. The two are in direct opposition to each other. If you say a person is destined to reject the gospel or is inherently hateful towards it, then you are in direct rejection of that person’s ability to choose his/her salvation.
Once again, I am not saying you shouldn’t preach about hell at all. I am merely saying that too much emphasis on hellfire will result in reinforcing stereotypes non-believers have about Christianity being a religion of fear.
First, let’s focus on Jesus’ words and only His words for this discussion. Secondly, I am asking you to do a simple calculation of how frequently He spoke of Hell (much less threatened people with it) and compare to how frequently He spoke of other topics. You will find the former to be significantly less.
Actually it does. When you give a speech, the best way to emphasize certain points is to constantly repeat it. Never fail to refer to it. Always having people to constantly focus on it.
One thing I’ve learned in Linguistics class is that words must accumulate enough negative connotation over extended periods of time before they even start sounding offensive.
And preaching on a soapbox is the only method that you find worth doing? Come off it. These days, all people do is talk. It’s another thing to actually do something. Talking and arguing with people (as you yourself have admitted) can be futile so why not just simply show it instead of trying to convince others with your words?
just chiming in here…
So. You are telling them that they should cease their “hellfire and brimstone” street proselytizing, because it isn’t effective even in the long run,; that a life well lived as a good example is a better way to evangelize–right after you call them an offensive name and tell them that since you don’t believe in political correctness, that they have to 'grow a thicker skin."
Again, foreknowledge doesn’t negate free will. For instance, I know that my daughter is going to be in a competition today, but that doesn’t mean that she is compelled by my knowledge to compete.
I’m cool with that. My job isn’t to make Christianity look attractive, only to preach the Gospel.
2 Tim 3 15-17 says that all of scripture is Jesus’ words.
And I’ve already explained to you two times why this is irrelevant.
But we’re not talking about giving a speech.
So then you admit that you’re using that phrase to “bash” us.
It’s a Biblical method.
For two reasons. The first is that it’s not how God has instructed us to do it.
Not in this case. The Bible says that it’s the preaching of the law and the Gospel that brings about conviction, not our actions.
Just to clarify, that was LostWanderer who said that, not me.
my apologies…to both of you. my ‘copy/paste’ function went wonky.