Russia and homosexuals

[constantconvert]

Russia has been in the news with its recently implemented law, which bars “propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations to minors.” Obviously this is a law in line with God’s moral law. However, there are incidents of anti-gay violence, and Putin, as an ex-member of the KGB is obviously no friend of the church.

How do we speak out against violence and injustice, without implying approval for homosexuality? How do we speak out against homosexuality in Russia without aligning with Putin and his thugs?

 

[SighGuy]

Well… Jesus sets a pretty good example for us. He dismisses all the people who would kill the adulteress and then tells her “go forth and sin no more.”

Love the homosexual, rebuke their sin.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

SighGuy
**
Love the homosexual, rebuke their sin. **

Unfortunately, sooner or later someone will show up in this thread to argue that rebuking the sin means hating the sinner. Count on it.

 

[constantconvert]

SighGuy
**
Love the homosexual, rebuke their sin. **

Unfortunately, sooner or later someone will show up in this thread to argue that rebuking the sin means hating the sinner. Count on it.

Exactly. Is there no more effective way to get the point across?

 

[SighGuy]

I’m having difficulty here. Do you want clarification on why it’s a sin…? Because the argument is exactly what Jesus does. That’s all there is to it. Dismiss the violent to protect the dignity and humanity of the sinner, and then rebuke the sin.

Does anyone have difficulty understanding Jesus in the example I listed? Or is it why homosexuality is a sin that requires clarification?

 

[Zachary]

The Church has always sought to treat everyone with dignity while trying to free us from our sin through the Sacraments. However, there are some who treat others with hate in opposition to God’s desire that we love all.

It anyone blames the Church for its people’s sins is either unaware of its doctrines or a liar. Unfortunately, the former are usually led by the latter.

 

[St_Francis]

Russia has been in the news with its recently implemented law, which bars “propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations to minors.” Obviously this is a law in line with God’s moral law. However, there are incidents of anti-gay violence, and Putin, as an ex-member of the KGB is obviously no friend of the church.

While Putin is an ex-KGB agent, he is now a member of the Russian Orthodox Church. As such, while there is tension between the two Churches, he is not an enemy of Catholic morality, which is pretty much shared by both communities.

How do we speak out against violence and injustice, without implying approval for homosexuality?

Do we concern ourselves so much with other instances of assault in Russia? In the US, I am hearing more about some possibly isolated cases of assault against overt homosexuals in Russia than about the deaths of Coptic Christians and Catholics and the descrations of the Eucharist through church destruction in the Middle East!

How do we speak out against homosexuality in Russia without aligning with Putin and his thugs?

How about the same way we support homosexuals in their difficulty without aligning ourselves with homosexual activists?

 

[eamonnroma]

Well… Jesus sets a pretty good example for us. He dismisses all the people who would kill the adulteress and then tells her “go forth and sin no more.”

Love the homosexual, rebuke their sin.

How do you know that the homosexual has sinned? Being homosexual is not a sin…

 

[Catherine_S]

Protecting children from drugs, alcohol, and serious diseases is* more*** important than anything else!
.
Media howl as Russia protects its children from gay propaganda
While Russians certainly do not want to encourage homosexuality, by no means do they criminalize homosexuality, nor do they discriminate against homosexuals, as some media have claimed. Homosexuals enjoy the same privileges as all other Russians, but they*** may not promote homosexuality*** as something*** positive*** among children in the same way as Mayor Bloomberg wants to eliminate sugary drinks, and Michelle Obama wants to get** unhealthy foods** out of school cafeterias.
.
The law prohibiting the promotion of homosexuality among children simply codifies that Russia truly is interested in protecting its children, not that it is interested in persecuting homosexuals. The fact is, that homosexuality is associated with almost a 20 times higher risk of HIV/AIDS, and other bad health statistics like higher incidence of drug and alcohol abuse, depression, and even suicide. It is no wonder that Russians want to protect their children from embracing homosexual lifestyles.
What remains unclear is why the Western media is so incensed with the Russians.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/media-howl-as-russia-protects-its-children-from-gay-propaganda/

 

[Zachary]

Catherine S, it’s because the media loves to glorify itself and to do so they blindly throw support behind the loudest horn.

 

[Rosebud77]

Well… Jesus sets a pretty good example for us. He dismisses all the people who would kill the adulteress and then tells her “go forth and sin no more.”

Love the homosexual, rebuke their sin.

Please take care; I have been assaulted for this… sadly gays rarely see their behaviour as sin and see this as homophobia

Pray and stay safe

 

[John_of_Woking]

Please take care; I have been assaulted for this… sadly gays rarely see their behaviour as sin and see this as homophobia

Pray and stay safe

Indeed, it is becoming not uncommon to be attacked for espousing traditional views on marriage.

 

[livingwordunity]

Russia has been in the news with its recently implemented law, which bars “propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations to minors.” Obviously this is a law in line with God’s moral law. However, there are incidents of anti-gay violence, and Putin, as an ex-member of the KGB is obviously no friend of the church.

How do we speak out against violence and injustice, without implying approval for homosexuality? How do we speak out against homosexuality in Russia without aligning with Putin and his thugs?

The shortest way to answer this is love the sinner but hate the sin. The problem is that too many people think that to love the sinner we have to love the sin. We should do, teach, and promote the truth about homosexuality as is taught in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. People should speak out against all violence and not limit our outrage to violence committed against homosexuals. There is no where near as much violence committed against homosexuals as there is committed against Christians. Christians are getting beheaded and churches are getting bombed, and we get silence from the mainstream media. But one homosexual in the world gets offended, and it’s on the front page in news everywhere. The “gay” lobby is one of the most powerful lobbies in the world. That’s because they have a ton of money backing it and plenty of politicians who are paid off by them. They push around smaller countries, but Russia is sending out a signal that they won’t be pushed around by political bullying from the “gay” lobby. Putin being former KGB is a red herring. The United States going out of it’s way to promote the sins of abortion and homosexual behavior and trying to force Christians to accept it as “the new normal” doesn’t give us American’s the higher moral ground to judge Russia. We should be glad that Russia is doing what is good for their country and doing what is good in the eyes of God.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

livingword

**The United States going out of it’s way to promote the sins of abortion and homosexual behavior and trying to force Christians to accept it as “the new normal” doesn’t give us American’s the higher moral ground to judge Russia. We should be glad that Russia is doing what is good for their country and doing what is good in the eyes of God. **

And we should be ashamed of the devils sitting on our own Supreme Court.

Philosopher Kings they are not!

 

[edwest2]

Russia has been in the news with its recently implemented law, which bars “propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations to minors.” Obviously this is a law in line with God’s moral law. However, there are incidents of anti-gay violence, and Putin, as an ex-member of the KGB is obviously no friend of the church.

How do we speak out against violence and injustice, without implying approval for homosexuality? How do we speak out against homosexuality in Russia without aligning with Putin and his thugs?

Putin has Patriarch Kirill’s support.

nytimes.com/2013/07/28/world/europe/putin-in-ukraine-to-celebrate-a-christian-anniversary.html?_r=0

The US elected ex-CIA Director George H.W. Bush, and what to do about the thugs in the US? Putin is ex-KGB which, of course, does not lessen his knowledge and no one ever retires from the Intelligence Community. Putin’s thugs? Thugs are responsible for their own crimes unless you can prove Putin sent them.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

livingword

**The United States going out of it’s way to promote the sins of abortion and homosexual behavior and trying to force Christians to accept it as “the new normal” doesn’t give us American’s the higher moral ground to judge Russia. We should be glad that Russia is doing what is good for their country and doing what is good in the eyes of God. **

And we should be ashamed of the devils sitting on our own Supreme Court.

Philosopher Kings they are not!

This is true. Immorality is immorality.

God have mercy,
Ed

 

[Catherine_S]

The shortest way to answer this is love the sinner but hate the sin. The problem is that too many people think that to love the sinner we have to love the sin. We should do, teach, and promote the truth about homosexuality as is taught in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. People should speak out against all violence and not limit our outrage to violence committed against homosexuals. **There is no where near as much violence committed against homosexuals as there is committed against Christians. Christians are getting beheaded and churches are getting bombed, and we get silence from the mainstream media. But one homosexual in the world gets offended, and it’s on the front page in news everywhere. **The “gay” lobby is one of the most powerful lobbies in the world. That’s because they have a ton of money backing it and plenty of politicians who are paid off by them. They push around smaller countries, but Russia is sending out a signal that they won’t be pushed around by political bullying from the “gay” lobby. Putin being former KGB is a red herring. The United States going out of it’s way to promote the sins of abortion and homosexual behavior and trying to force Christians to accept it as “the new normal” doesn’t **give us American’s the higher moral ground to judge Russia. **We should be glad that Russia is doing what is good for their country and doing what is good in the eyes of God.

We in the West have* no** higher moral ground to stand upon!*
Things to ponder in terms of Christian persecution around the *
world in our day as well!! *
.
And let us not forget the destruction of the ancient Christian port of Smyrna in September 1922, during which as many as 100,000 Armenian and Greek Christians were massacred, their homes and shops burned to the ground by Turkish troops, under the callous eyes of British and French warships anchored in the harbor,and American troops* in the city, ordered to not intervene.
Let us not repeat such scandalous moral failures of yesteryear.
.
In any case, one must admit of an inherent Western blind spot when it comes to understanding Russia’s foreign policy vis a vis vulnerable Christian populations. I would submit that what we are witnessing today in Russia’s clearly articulated role as protector of Christian minorities in the Islamic world **is the **contemporary application **of **a deeply felt holy duty, which the Russian Orthodox Church has enjoined upon *the Putin government.
http://facingislam.blogspot.ca/2013/08/the-wests-blind-spot-towards-russia.html

 

[Deo_Volente]

Grace & Peace!

Christians are getting beheaded and churches are getting bombed, and we get silence from the mainstream media. But one homosexual in the world gets offended, and it’s on the front page in news everywhere.

It’s morally problematic to respond to the question of “how do we speak out against violence and injustice,” with something like, “well, our suffering is more significant and more unjust.” It comes across as a way to rationalize certain forms of violence and injustice as opposed to actually speaking out against it or making a positive moral response to it.

…]but Russia is sending out a signal that they won’t be pushed around by political bullying from the “gay” lobby.

I fear you misunderstand politics if you believe that any politician in this age will do anything moral for any other reason than the interests of his or her political career.

The legislation in Russia is meant to consolidate a (predominantly) rural and conservative political base against the increasingly dis-satisfied grumblings of a more urban constituency.

If the Russian government were interested in morality in its recent anti-homosexual legislation, one would expect that it would be interested in the moral implementation of what it has legislated. You will find it is not so interested.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!

 

[sw85]

Russia has been in the news with its recently implemented law, which bars “propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations to minors.” Obviously this is a law in line with God’s moral law. However, there are incidents of anti-gay violence, and Putin, as an ex-member of the KGB is obviously no friend of the church.

I don’t think it’s clear that Putin is “no friend of the Church.” He strikes me as a man who has no faith but is earnestly seeking it and is, perhaps, trying to “fake it till he makes it” – or at least as a man who sees great social utility in the Church and desires that it be propped up.

How do we speak out against violence and injustice, without implying approval for homosexuality? How do we speak out against homosexuality in Russia without aligning with Putin and his thugs?

Crazy though, but we could just leave Russians to govern Russians and Orthodox to govern Orthodox. Part of the reason they hate us so much is because we intrude in their affairs constantly, so more intrusion isn’t going to help anything, anyway.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Exactly. Is there no more effective way to get the point across?

Kind of seems like getting that point across is dependent on first getting the person to which you are speaking to agree that homosexuality is a sin (Which may also depend on agreement on what is meant by “Sin”). Without those agreements I think there may be obstacles to communicating your primary point.