Russia and homosexuals

[livingwordunity]

I fear you misunderstand politics if you believe that any politician in this age will do anything moral for any other reason than the interests of his or her political career.

Wouldn’t it have been good if the White House admin would have heeded Putin’s warning about the two terrorists who went on afterward to bomb Boston? Lesson that should have been learned (but probably wasn’t): We shouldn’t assume that Putin is always wrong just because he’s Putin.

 

[epan]

SighGuy
Unfortunately, sooner or later someone will show up in this thread to argue that rebuking the sin means hating the sinner. Count on it.

The reason for that is the history of the matter. That should be obvious. To truly love the sinner, while rebuking the sin, would also include some sensitivity to the truth that gays have, in fact, been persecuted for centuries, even in Russia today. Iran is another place, which comes to mind.

With the Catholic Church’s unfortunate history in this area, even very recent history with the pedophiles, gays have good reason to be suspicious of anything She has to say on the topic. It is very difficult to act one way, and advocate in another direction, and also to retain any credibility or respect.

 

[Deo_Volente]

Grace & Peace!

Wouldn’t it have been good if the White House admin would have heeded Putin’s warning about the two terrorists who went on afterward to bomb Boston? Lesson that should have been learned (but probably wasn’t): We shouldn’t assume that Putin is always wrong just because he’s Putin.

A bit off topic, but here’s the thing–given the very violent history between Russia and Chechnya, it’s more likely to me that sharing the information had more to do with Russian-Chechen relations than it had to do with Russia helping the US with a possible security threat. There is no such thing as altruism in politics. Everything is quid pro quo in one way or another.

Regarding Putin being wrong, I don’t assume he’s always wrong. I assume he’s always Putin.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!

 

[Regular_Atheist]

Say that beating up homosexuals isn’t a good thing.

 

[Catherine_S]

Say that beating up homosexuals isn’t a good thing.

Beating up homosexuals, women, children, christians, blacks, etc. etc… etc. is never a good thing… apart from a deep and abiding concern for children and their protection…which any culture that hopes to survive places first in it’s moral order…no group deserves priority in the media!!

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I don’t think it’s clear that Putin is “no friend of the Church.” He strikes me as a man who has no faith but is earnestly seeking it and is, perhaps, trying to “fake it till he makes it” – or at least as a man who sees great social utility in the Church and desires that it be propped up.

(…)

He’s a friend to the Church the way the Mob is a “friend to the Church.” I’m sure he sees lots of uses for the Church. As long as the Church agrees with him.

 

[kozlosap]

Grace & Peace!

It’s morally problematic to respond to the question of “how do we speak out against violence and injustice,” with something like, “well, our suffering is more significant and more unjust.” It comes across as a way to rationalize certain forms of violence and injustice as opposed to actually speaking out against it or making a positive moral response to it.

I fear you misunderstand politics if you believe that any politician in this age will do anything moral for any other reason than the interests of his or her political career.

The legislation in Russia is meant to consolidate a (predominantly) rural and conservative political base against the increasingly dis-satisfied grumblings of a more urban constituency.

If the Russian government were interested in morality in its recent anti-homosexual legislation, one would expect that it would be interested in the moral implementation of what it has legislated. You will find it is not so interested.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!

Thank you Mark, for an excellent post that explains the true reason for the new legislation. I read an article about this earlier in the week.

 

[livingwordunity]

Putin may not be a perfect Christian, but let’s give him a chance and not judge him.

 

[OurLadyPray4US]

I don’t think it’s clear that Putin is “no friend of the Church.” He strikes me as a man who has no faith but is earnestly seeking it and is, perhaps, trying to “fake it till he makes it” – or at least as a man who sees great social utility in the Church and desires that it be propped up.

Crazy though, but we could just leave Russians to govern Russians and Orthodox to govern Orthodox. Part of the reason they hate us so much is because we intrude in their affairs constantly, so more intrusion isn’t going to help anything, anyway.

I agree about Putin. His wife is religious, and he himself might be earnestly seeking God. Even politicians might find genuine faith in God sometimes, as strange as that sounds.

And regarding leaving the Russians to govern Russia, I agree as well. BTW, we don’t criticize our Saudi friends, even though they go furtherand actually criminalize homosexuality in adults, whereas Russia is not doing that. Also, the media in Europe and America went wild criticizing Hungary for its new Constitution, and Hungary was rebuked by German chancellor Angela Merkel, by high level politiciansin the UK and the EU Parliament in Brussels, and also by Sec. of State Hillary Clinton. Actually, some of Hungary’s biggest “sins” were saying in its Constitution that marriage is the permanent union of one man and one woman, that family constitutes the bedrock of Hungarian society, and that human life will be protected from the moment of conception. And Hungary was rebuked for this. Actually these politicians and media never got it that the new Hungarian Constitution says exactly what the Hungarian people believe in, and that they are not welcome in their attempts at meddling with the Hungarian nation’s self governance.

So yeah, what a crazy concept, could we please just leave other nations alone, especially now when we are all messed up and trying to export our own sexual immorality and murders (abortions) to other countries?

 

[OurLadyPray4US]

Putin may not be a perfect Christian, but let’s give him a chance and not judge him.

Yeah, we just never know. And interestingly the wives of both Vladimir Putin and Dmitry Medvedev are religious. Never discount a wife’s influence.

 

[Alabotacat]

It was quite a surprise to read that Putin called for an end to the persecution of Christians in the mid-East. Compare this with what President Obama said about it----nothing! I’m not so sure that it is still true to say that Putin is no friend of the Church. (That, however, can clearly be said accurately about Obama.) You can read more here:

lifesitenews.com/news/world-leaders-should-unite-to-end-anti-christian-persecution-vladimir-putin

 

[dockboggs]

Well… Jesus sets a pretty good example for us. He dismisses all the people who would kill the adulteress and then tells her “go forth and sin no more.”

Love the homosexual, rebuke their sin.

How do you know that all homosexual people are sinning? They may be living an extremely chaste life.

Love the homosexual person, rebuke their sin if there is any

Homosexuality is NOT intrinsically or essentially sinful.

Judge not and you will not be judged.

 

[Droning_Mary]

Love God above all else and love your neighbor as yourself. Just imagine you are a homosexual person that has been born from the hand of God as a homosexual. Pope Francis has recently called on homosexuals to refrain from homosexual acts but he also indicated that homosexuals are born homosexual in sexual orientation and that they did not get any choice in the matter.

After thinking about this for a while I began to realize that if I cannot separate the sin from the sinner I really do put on their sin together with the sin of my judgement. In the love and mercy of God, I often forget to not throw stones at sinners — they only bounce back and hit me on the head. Obviously they found their correct target !

Rather than focusing on Russia, on this 50th anniversary of the speech by Martin Luther King ’ I have a dream ’ wouldn’t it be great if we remembered with sadness how the USA segregated non-whites in education and on public transport in recent years - all because of how people were born. Still to this day we tend to judge people by how they were born rather than embracing the life of God animating the person.

St. Francis kissed the sores of lepers and Jesus chose the company of sinners - that means everyone. Sin is everywhere and it’s very easily found by sinners but to find the sinner and to love them is to find the company of Christ.

Please pray for me a sinner x

 

[gsl2006]

In Russia, the sodomy was decriminalized in the 1990s. In the USA the decriminalization began in the 1960s. The Bible refers to the punishment of the towns Sodom and Homorra that happened few thousand years ago. So, you are discussing the absolute novelty (tolerance to homosexuals who self-proclaimed themselves a social class which needs extra-privileges) from the historical and human point of view.

Thus, standing on your position, we have three unknowns:

1. What is the sin and punishment. Do we need these concepts?
2. What is the history. Do we need the knowledge of it?
3. What is better: Christianity or Buddhism. Where the gadgets are funnier?

I’ll pray for you. And ask you to pray (if you can) for me sinner (my major sin is not following the words of God to Joshua “you shall cause this people to inherit the land that I swore to their fathers to give them”).

 

[Droning_Mary]

To be honest I don’t really know very much about sodomy or its history. It’s not an area that takes up much of my time.

Surely my position has many millions of unknowns and not only three? I would hope that it enumerates to every single person that has walked this earth.

Thank you for your prayers x

 

[MaryandJoseph]

Love Putin or hate Putin, at least he is taking a stand against the Gay lobby that seems to “control” our own country.

 

[St_Francis]

If you hit the quote button at the lower right-hand corner of the post to which you are responding, we’ll have a better understaning of what you are saying

To be honest I don’t really know very much about sodomy or its history. It’s not an area that takes up much of my time.

Surely my position has many millions of unknowns and not only three? I would hope that it enumerates to every single person that has walked this earth.

Thank you for your prayers x

In Russia, the sodomy was decriminalized in the 1990s. In the USA the decriminalization began in the 1960s. The Bible refers to the punishment of the towns Sodom and Homorra that happened few thousand years ago. So, you are discussing the absolute novelty (tolerance to homosexuals who self-proclaimed themselves a social class which needs extra-privileges) from the historical and human point of view.

Thus, standing on your position, we have three unknowns:

1. What is the sin and punishment. Do we need these concepts?
2. What is the history. Do we need the knowledge of it?
3. What is better: Christianity or Buddhism. Where the gadgets are funnier?

I’ll pray for you. And ask you to pray (if you can) for me sinner (my major sin is not following the words of God to Joshua “you shall cause this people to inherit the land that I swore to their fathers to give them”).

 

[Droning_Mary]

If you hit the quote button at the lower right-hand corner of the post to which you are responding, we’ll have a better understaning of what you are saying

Thank you St. Francis x ( I am a trail member still getting to know my way around postings etc)

If it helps, and maybe it’s a little too late…my first posting referred to the very first posting on this subject and my second referred to the posting below that was immediately placed after my first posting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsl2006 View Post
In Russia, the sodomy was decriminalized in the 1990s. In the USA the decriminalization began in the 1960s. The Bible refers to the punishment of the towns Sodom and Homorra that happened few thousand years ago. So, you are discussing the absolute novelty (tolerance to homosexuals who self-proclaimed themselves a social class which needs extra-privileges) from the historical and human point of view.

Thus, standing on your position, we have three unknowns:

1. What is the sin and punishment. Do we need these concepts?
2. What is the history. Do we need the knowledge of it?
3. What is better: Christianity or Buddhism. Where the gadgets are funnier?

I’ll pray for you. And ask you to pray (if you can) for me sinner (my major sin is not following the words of God to Joshua “you shall cause this people to inherit the land that I swore to their fathers to give them”).

 

[gsl2006]

To be honest I don’t really know very much about sodomy …]

Surely my position has many millions of unknowns and not only three? I would hope that it enumerates to every single person that has walked this earth.

Thank you for your prayers x

It’s my pleasure to pray for others in the hope that the others will take care of my sorrows (in their prayers).

A bit of “kick-boxing”, as an element of good friendship, though.

You said “born from the hand of God as a homosexual”. This is one of few knowns to you, yeh?

I wonder who was the first to affirm the absurd idea that some people is born with already developed anal sexual desire (I am a male and for me gays mean male gays, though the father of two grown daughters). Are there real-life examples?

The well established pedagogical theory says that anal sensibility is one of later stages in the development of a child, which comes before sexual maturity which actually completes the physical and psycological formation of a person. The exact maturity age vary in various climates. You can learn it from quite a few American textbooks.

Would you point at the earliest proven statement of the above absurd idea?

Thank you,

P.S. Just to make things clearer, the male homosexuality (acceptance of this kind of perversion) develops in the adolescence as a result of existing extreme and abnormal slave-master relations in some (thanks Lord, not many) boys companies or families. The harsher is the public (clerics included) punishment the fewer are manifestations of this kind of slavery.

 

[gsl2006]

boys groups