Russia and homosexuals

[Droning_Mary]

Thank you for your prayers x - I said a few feeble prayers yesterday for all and mentioned you with kindness.

I think perhaps, that we have an English language difficulty? But correct me if I am wrong.

Anal sex - which I believe you are referring to, is not an act that any Catholic can engage in. That includes heterosexual and homosexual anal sex. Anal sex is by its object - or in ordinary English terms , is by its end goal not orientated to producing a child. So oral sex, anal sex, protected sex (condom / contraceptives), masturbation, etc, or in deed any sex act that by its end goal does not allow for the procreation of a child is not permitted in Catholic teaching inside or outside of marriage. This teaching refers to every person and not just homosexuals.

However, you maybe surprised to know that a person can romantically love another person of the same sex and not sin. Absolutely Yes. So long as it does not become a sexual act. Simply put, it is not a sin according to Catholicism, to be a homosexual or in fact to be a heterosexual. Check this out, if you doubt me. To be a homosexual is a sin in Islam and other faiths. …Sometimes I think the Catholic Church has some very hidden Muslims and members from other faiths without realizing they are in the wrong church, and that may include me. I eat meat but I am not always happy about it

…Anyway, back to the difference between act and being. Human sin happens only with an act and not with being. For example, in very loose terms, an act does not only mean an external act like killing a person, it can mean also an internal act like thinking about killing a person or willing a person’s death etc. Sorry if I am stating things you may already know, but I want to indicate that I am not posting about act. I am posting about Being - that is the question A person cannot be a sin. They commit sin which is an act.

Any being from the hand of God, is by God’s will or permission that being and only that being - ( at least until the resurrection ). Unfortunately, our sexuality is not determined singularly by psychological or by physiological factors alone. Sexuality is hardwired into our existence (into our individual beings) and cannot be altered, however hard we may try to alter it. It can be a composite of both psychological and physiological and/or other factors. For example, an hermaphrodite has both male and female sexual organs and their sexual orientation will emerge, rather than evolve psychologically. Hermaphrodite sexuality can be male or female or, theoretically both sexual orientations.
( Usually, but not always, one sexual orientation emerges ).
To deny the existence of hermaphrodites would be to deny an act of creation by the hand of God and would also deny that a human being (for example a hermaphrodite) can physically have a different sexual orientation to one of their sexual organs and; that is homosexuality in being, at least towards one of their sexual organs. Having a male / female or both sexual organs does not always predetermine or decide a person’s sexuality. So it is very possible for homosexual person to exist from the hand of God if we only refer to a person’s physical sexual organs. Perhaps, the real truth and sin of homosexuality has yet to be discovered ??? Who knows? For example, is it a homosexual sin for an hermaphrodite to engage in a sexual act with a person that did not match their predetermined and hard wired sexual preference. Yes, would be my answer. Can the same be said of a homosexual? If not, why? Again, it is all down to procreation as an act and not down to being.

Pope Francis affirmed the difference between being a homosexual and the problem of a sexual act when he stated " If they (Homosexuals) accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them? They shouldn’t be marginalized. The tendency (to homosexuality) is not the problem … they’re our brothers."

…perhaps Pope Francis should have said they are our brothers and sisters (it’s is a bit sexist otherwise).

So being a homosexual is not the problem. The problem is a homosexual sexual act which by its nature does not allow for the procreation of a child. To masturbate as a heterosexual is identical in its disorder to a homosexual masturbating. In fact many heterosexual sexual acts are similar in their disorder to many homosexual sexual acts when they do not allow for procreation of a child.

So it is all about the act and not about the being.

Please pray for me x

It’s my pleasure to pray for others in the hope that the others will take care of my sorrows (in their prayers).

A bit of “kick-boxing”, as an element of good friendship, though.

You said “born from the hand of God as a homosexual”. This is one of few knowns to you, yeh?

I wonder who was the first to affirm the absurd idea that some people is born with already developed anal sexual desire (I am a male and for me gays mean male gays, though the father of two grown daughters). Are there real-life examples?

The well established pedagogical theory says that anal sensibility is one of later stages in the development of a child, which comes before sexual maturity which actually completes the physical and psycological formation of a person. The exact maturity age vary in various climates. You can learn it from quite a few American textbooks.

Would you point at the earliest proven statement of the above absurd idea?

Thank you,

P.S. Just to make things clearer, the male homosexuality (acceptance of this kind of perversion) develops in the adolescence as a result of existing extreme and abnormal slave-master relations in some (thanks Lord, not many) boys companies or families. The harsher is the public (clerics included) punishment the fewer are manifestations of this kind of slavery.

 

[gsl2006]

I think perhaps, that we have an English language difficulty? But correct me if I am wrong.

You are absolutely right. In my profile I specified location Moscow, Russia. I am Russian. Hopefully, we can easily converse in the far future about the most delicate topics of life and faith, not now.

Anal sex - which I believe you are referring to [and so on]

not delicate topic at all.

Unfortunately, you didn’t point out who was (among) the first to state the absurd idea about the Lord giving the gift of homosexual life and/or desire. This is quite basic and fundamental. Please do this research on my behalf.

a person can romantically love another person of the same sex and not sin.

ditto, as above. Romantic love (do you mean sexual desire, eros?) to same-sex as the opposite of Christian love (agape) is another element of unkown theory or theology. Does English language have diffculty with the word 'love? Only the Medieval monks talked about the eros to (material fusion with) Christ the Saviour, but never about the eros to each other. (Don’t dream on, today’s monks!)

To be a homosexual is a sin in Islam and other faiths. …Sometimes I think the Catholic Church has some very hidden Muslims and members from other faiths without realizing they are in the wrong church

Aha, play on the difference and gain ground. I see

Human sin happens only with an act and not with being.

It comes even with thinking or in a dream.

hermaphrodite has both male and female sexual organs and their sexual orientation will emerge, rather than evolve psychologically. Hermaphrodite sexuality can be male or female or, theoretically both sexual orientations.

What are the “special” genitals of male homosexuals?

Perhaps, the real truth and sin of homosexuality has yet to be discovered ??? Who knows?

I think, the mere fact of being concentrated on this problem, wasting the time on discussing what has been discussed and finally decided thousands years ago, already causes harm to our souls and lives.

Pope Francis affirmed the difference between being a homosexual and the problem of a sexual act when he stated " If they (Homosexuals) accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them? They shouldn’t be marginalized. The tendency (to homosexuality) is not the problem … they’re our brothers."

The treatment is not marginalization. Love lepers but not invite others become lepers and not be proud of your illness, be humble.

So being a homosexual is not the problem. The problem is …its nature does not allow for the procreation of a child.

It’s very big and fundamental problem, for souls and health. Our rectum is not cleaner than our brains. Hepatitis and a host of others like this sort of relations.

Furthermore, you forgot one more argument, that this is necessary for experiments. My answer is: the limit of off-limits is death. Our Lord (and only He!!!) won the death to redeem us sinners from the death. Gloria in excelsis!

Back to the topic: this legislation is a sluggish parody of Russian obamaphiles, and it is sometimes compensated by the people in the real life. I consider it as normal reaction to unheard arrogance of the political world gays.

Please pray for me

Yes, I’ll do!

 

[gsl2006]

to my above reply: parody by Russian obamaphiles of an adequate law

 

[J_Peterson]

P.S. Just to make things clearer, the male homosexuality (acceptance of this kind of perversion) develops in the adolescence as a result of existing extreme and abnormal slave-master relations in some (thanks Lord, not many) boys companies or families. The harsher is the public (clerics included) punishment the fewer are manifestations of this kind of slavery.

This is wrong.

 

[CorieDreams]

I’m sorry guys, but it looks absoltelutyabhorent to see a thread that is specifically about violence towards homosexuals, andseeing some people cry out, “But other groupsare being oppressed too! more worthy groups!” that may be. There is violence in ever neck of the woods, against many people good and not so good. But this thread is simply NOT about those other groups. I’m sorry, but violence against homosexual persons is no less legitimate than violence against CHristian persons, or Jewish persons, or Mexican persons, or Persons who will never grow to be 4 feet high. It’s simply that this thread was started to talk about the violence in Russia.

Please also note that the OP expressed support for the law itself, but concern over individual reactions in Russia over the law. Have you seen what’s going on? It’s very brutal, and very violent, and very unsettling. They are human beings and, like it or NOT, there actually IS such a thing as homophobia. QUIET DOWN, let me finish! Opposing gay marriage is not homophobia. Believing homosexuality is a sin is not homophobia. But beating up homoexuals, hating them the way people who kill high school boys hate, mobs going after people who are homosexual, THAT is homophobia and it is very real. Please, when your only response is to argue that no one group deserves media attention, or you concentrate only on praising Russia for its law, you are missing the point, and one that I’ve often seen. Many CHristians, I feel, ARE afraid to be able to stand up and say NO, violent crimes against homosexuals like what’s going on in Russia are NOT OK, because they fear they will be seen as being part of the homosexual lobby. How can we prove to our dissenters that we love the sinner and hate the sin whenwe are unable to take a stand when the sinner is the one others are hating?

 

[gsl2006]

I’m sorry guys, but it looks absoltelutyabhorent …]violence against homosexual persons is no less legitimate than violence against CHristian persons, or Jewish persons, or Mexican persons, or Persons who will never grow to be 4 feet high. It’s simply that this thread was started to talk about the violence (?) in Russia.

Please also note that the OP expressed support for the law itself, but concern over individual reactions in Russia over the law. …] homophobia. QUIET DOWN, let me finish!
…] you concentrate only on praising Russia for its law, you are missing the point, and one that I’ve often seen.
Many CHristians, I feel, ARE afraid to be able to stand up and say NO ? no to what?]
How can we prove to our dissenters that we love the sinner and hate the sin whenwe are unable to take a stand when the sinner is the one others are hating?

I wonder why this thread didn’t begin from this post since the digital world is full of this kind of statements from active online citizens, who certainly are from the U.S.A. and Europe.

Thus, the heading hereof should’ve said: Russia and homosexuals: Online citizen! Let’s practice in trowing your stones at this usual target".

You love homosexuals so much that you give them additional civil rights . Ok. But your love should be expressed/explained in positive words. I heard nothing but homophobia, violence, abhorrent, etc.

Are you able to explain your affirmative attitude towards gays in positive words? What’s socially positive is in their sexual perversion (this is not swear word but classical definition of homosexuality)?

Thank you,

 

[CorieDreams]

I wonder why this thread didn’t begin from this post since the digital world is full of this kind of statements from active online citizens, who certainly are from the U.S.A. and Europe.

Thus, the heading hereof should’ve said: Russia and homosexuals: Online citizen! Let’s practice in trowing your stones at this usual target".

You love homosexuals so much that you give them additional civil rights . Ok. But your love should be expressed/explained in positive words. I heard nothing but homophobia, violence, abhorrent, etc.

Are you able to explain your affirmative attitude towards gays in positive words? What’s socially positive is in their sexual perversion (this is not swear word but classical definition of homosexuality)?

Thank you,

Uh…excuse me? I honestly have NO idea what you’re even asking of me here. Like…to the point where I have to charitably wonder how well you understand English.

 

[edwest2]

Russia is doing the right thing. The law is correct. It is not illegal to be Gay in Russia. If you have not read the law - I’m not referring to a specific person - then read what it says.

Peace,
Ed

 

[CorieDreams]

Russia is doing the right thing. The law is correct. It is not illegal to be Gay in Russia. If you have not read the law - I’m not referring to a specific person - then read what it says.

Peace,
Ed

But the OP was not refering to the law itself, but rather, how extreme some individuals have taken the law…why is everyone in thos thread not addressing that?

 

[edwest2]

But the OP was not refering to the law itself, but rather, how extreme some individuals have taken the law…why is everyone in thos thread not addressing that?

And you have anti-gay extremists in the United States. What point are you making?

Peace,
Ed

 

[CorieDreams]

And you have anti-gay extremists in the United States. What point are you making?

Peace,
Ed

I’m not trying to make a point, sir. I just think the OP has a point. what can Catholics do to end violence against persons with SSA without appearing to support SSM? There is violence against many different groups of people, and none of it is ok! But I see many Christians who are afraid to stand up, for example, for young people getting beat up even if somethign just THINKS they are homosexual, because they’re afraid they will appear to be for gay rights. I think OP is worried that violence against homosexuals persons might increase now that aspects of the homosexual culture are illegal. Some people enjoy taking the law into their own hands, you see, and even though the law does not make homosexuality illegal, I think it is likely that some will see it that way, and feel righteous in “enforcing” that law in whatever way they see fit

I have no agenda and no real point to make. I just think it’s a hard tightrope to walk.

 

[Droning_Mary]

I could not agree more with the points made below. Russia certainly has every right to prevent sexual education - gay or otherwise from being mediated to children and youths, however, the way the Russia has promoted this political stunt has only offered thugs and bullies a way to operate within its law as state sanctioned violence. This or any other unjustified violence has no part in Christianity and absolutely no part in Catholicism. A Catholic may hate gays, blacks, hispanics, whites and any other group from humanity you care to think of, but always always unjustified violence will always be anti-Catholic. So when we are finished hating and when we are finished supporting regimes and political systems, at home or foreign, that endorse unjustified violence in word or by the sword, let us know that we are anti-Catholic and anti-God.

Please pray for me x

I’m not trying to make a point, sir. I just think the OP has a point. what can Catholics do to end violence against persons with SSA without appearing to support SSM? There is violence against many different groups of people, and none of it is ok! But I see many Christians who are afraid to stand up, for example, for young people getting beat up even if somethign just THINKS they are homosexual, because they’re afraid they will appear to be for gay rights. I think OP is worried that violence against homosexuals persons might increase now that aspects of the homosexual culture are illegal. Some people enjoy taking the law into their own hands, you see, and even though the law does not make homosexuality illegal, I think it is likely that some will see it that way, and feel righteous in “enforcing” that law in whatever way they see fit

I have no agenda and no real point to make. I just think it’s a hard tightrope to walk.

 

[gsl2006]

I could not agree more with the points made below. Russia certainly has every right to prevent sexual education - gay or otherwise from being mediated to children and youths, however, the way the Russia has promoted this political stunt has only offered thugs and bullies a way to operate within its law as state sanctioned violence. This or any other unjustified violence has no part in Christianity and absolutely no part in Catholicism. A Catholic may hate gays, blacks, hispanics, whites and any other group from humanity you care to think of, but always always unjustified violence will always be anti-Catholic. So when we are finished hating and when we are finished supporting regimes and political systems, at home or foreign, that endorse unjustified violence in word or by the sword, let us know that we are anti-Catholic and anti-God.

Please pray for me x

I see, intrusion into and destruction of healthy normal sex traditions is not bullying. A dozen of wretched Russian gays picketed this summer in the Red Square in Moscow with the banner: Homophoby is bovine religion (reference to latin Quod licet Jovi non licet bovi).

Since 1949 and even earlier, political activity brought no advantage to the common Christian cause unlike big business and real international bullies. There is no need for the church to take protector’s part in this harmful initiative. It is to the detriment of real Christian love, education, culture and faith.

The Roman Catholics in Russia are the irreplaceable element of the Russian state and culture from the time immemorial. I hope that the sound attitude (treat gays with love, help them in their illness) won’t be currupted by unhealthy recent aggressive influences from the outside and from the inside (there are many domestic bed bugs as well).

In Christ,

 

[Natalia_Leon]

The law is correct.

1. The antilaw is unconstitutional. It directly contradicts the Russian Constitution.

But we shouldn’t really be surprised. The criminal kingpin Putin and his gang have been violating The Constitution for a very long time on different matters.

1. The law is anti-scientific. Health care professionals, psychologists, scientists were against this law as it doesn’t have any scientific grounds and presents a clear danger to LGBT youth (not only by this wave of violence mentioned

above) + no such thing as propaganga of a biological trait exists

3)The antilaw violates the Universal Declaration Of Human Rights

1. The antilaw was lobbied by the totalitarian orthodox cult chosen by international and federal criminal Putin as the new-old Ministry Of Truth.He wants to turn Russia into a bloody mix of the Northern Korea and Iran because only under
   this regime he may have a chance not to end his life executed by the Russian tribunal for his crimes when the time has come.
   And was enacted not for protection of children but as a next response to Magnitsky list. Deputies that voted for this antilaw also voted for antiorphan law before that
2. Deputies who voted for this antilaw are members of a criminal organization lead by Putin.They talk about orthodox faith, patriotism yet they keep stolen Russian millions in the Western banks,they buy mansions in the West, they send
   their children to live and study there, where human rights and freedoms are protected,and never come back.

6)The antilaw as it is put on paper reeks of Nazism declaring millions of people “socially inferior” to their fellow brothers and sisters based on a biological trait.

Although Article 282 of the The Russian Criminal Code should protect LGBT as a social group it does not thanx to corrupted courts.

And we have people of power and status saying such things as:

Oleg Betin, United Russia,the governor of Tombov calling publicly for a hideous act of genocide agaisnt millions of Russians in the most horrible way: "Tolerance? To hell! Faggots must be torn apart and their pieces should be thrown in

the wind"

“The Purtin’s court” found nothing wrong with that.

Father-Superior Sergey Ribko, a prominent figure in the Russian orthodox Church responding to pogroms of gay clubs: " I understand why the Russians did what they did.
The Holy Scripture calls for stoning of gays. Until the day comes when these scums leave Russia for good I wholeheartedly share the views of the ones who try to purge them out from our Motherland.
Unfortunately I, as a priest, can’t take part in pogroms" The Church has never condemned his comments.

Violence, persecution and other horrors are on the rise after antilaw was enacted.
Police arrest peaceful demonstrators instead of the ones who attack them violently, throw faeces and whatnot at them - thugs, neo nazis, religious extremists.They all got the greenlight to do what they please.

You know nothing of this antilaw and the situation in Russia

 

[CorieDreams]

I see, intrusion into and destruction of healthy normal sex traditions is not bullying. A dozen of wretched Russian gays picketed this summer in the Red Square in Moscow with the banner: Homophoby is bovine religion (reference to latin Quod licet Jovi non licet bovi).

Since 1949 and even earlier, political activity brought no advantage to the common Christian cause unlike big business and real international bullies. There is no need for the church to take protector’s part in this harmful initiative. It is to the detriment of real Christian love, education, culture and faith.

The Roman Catholics in Russia are the irreplaceable element of the Russian state and culture from the time immemorial. I hope that the sound attitude (treat gays with love, help them in their illness) won’t be currupted by unhealthy recent aggressive influences from the outside and from the inside (there are many domestic bed bugs as well).

In Christ,

Please do not call anyone “wretched”

 

[edwest2]

I see, intrusion into and destruction of healthy normal sex traditions is not bullying. A dozen of wretched Russian gays picketed this summer in the Red Square in Moscow with the banner: Homophoby is bovine religion (reference to latin Quod licet Jovi non licet bovi).

Since 1949 and even earlier, political activity brought no advantage to the common Christian cause unlike big business and real international bullies. There is no need for the church to take protector’s part in this harmful initiative. It is to the detriment of real Christian love, education, culture and faith.

The Roman Catholics in Russia are the irreplaceable element of the Russian state and culture from the time immemorial. I hope that the sound attitude (treat gays with love, help them in their illness) won’t be currupted by unhealthy recent aggressive influences from the outside and from the inside (there are many domestic bed bugs as well).

In Christ,

Thank you. That is clearly the right thing to do. And if individuals who witness a drive-by shooting in Detroit are too afraid to speak to the police afterwards, they should be arrested and interrogated? If someone witnesses gay bullying, and does nothing, they should be arrested? Any citizen is responsible for his or her own actions, both in my country and yours. Hooligans are the same in any country.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Droning_Mary]

I am humbled and encouraged by this poster below. Informed and a veritable knight for the Truth. Religious extremism can be mastered by anyone and only for a small moment of time; even the irreligious. In the end, the extremist becomes enslaved by the mastery of their own views and is lost to Truth. The pharisees condemned and executed Jesus using extreme religious interpretation. Sometimes, it would seem that some people in this world haven’t finished crucifying our merciful Christ that is present in every person.

Please prayer for me a sinner x

You obviously know nothing about it.

But no wonder. Your views seem to have long been that of a religious extremist based on your posts on this forum.

 

[gsl2006]

Please do not call anyone “wretched”

Above all, the Jupiters, yes?

I learned about them when I saw their picture in an article published in a British newspaper.

They really had shabby (I can say that about shacks, yes?, hope that you’'ll understand me) look. The Red Square is a very large place, they (half-dozen of painted and pierced boys) stood almost in the middle of the square with, how to say, a burning candle that produces dense red smoke and held their banner, long enough to take a picture. Perhaps, nobody else saw or read their banner. A group of boys walking around painted and tattooed, with ear-rings and the rest of the outfit - is quite normal now in Russia.

And they had that wretched look! Standing on top of the Olympus - with this shabby look. Only paid worker can have such look. Here is the question and the answer.

 

[CorieDreams]

Above all, the Jupiters, yes?

I learned about them when I saw their picture in an article published in a British newspaper.

They really had shabby (I can say that about shacks, yes?, hope that you’'ll understand me) look. The Red Square is a very large place, they (dozens of painted and pierced boys) stood almost in the middle of the square with, how to say, a burning candle that produces dense red smoke and held their banner, long enough to take a picture. Perhaps, nobody else saw or read their banner. A group of boys walking around painted and tattooed, with ear-rings and the rest of the outfit - is quite normal now in Russia.

And they had that wretched look! Standing on top of the Olympus - with this shabby look. Only paid worker can have such look. Here is the question and the answer.

Sir, I never understand your posts because I don’t understand your English Grammar, nor have I been able to tell what the point of any of your posts are.

 

[gsl2006]

Sir, I never understand your posts because I don’t understand your English Grammar, nor have I been able to tell what the point of any of your posts are.

Oh, my point is very clear. It is dangerous to experiment with basic principles laid by God the Father who created man and woman, that’s all.

Just believe in it.

Good luck!