Russian Orthodox Church

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Gabriel_of_12 said:
I thought the Council of Chalcedon 451 condemned Monophysitism? Ratified by Pope Leo I.

The Constantinople II council of 553, Condemned the writings of theologians as having been infested with Nestorianism; Theodore of Mopsuestia, Theodoret of Cyrrhus, and Ebas of Edessa. The Emperor Justinian I, wanted the Church to consider these Greek theologians Orthodox.

The council of Constantinople III of 680, Condemned Monothelism; Convened by Constantine IV and Ratified by Pope Leo II.
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Actually, Justinian wanted the Three Chapters to be condemned. It was Pope Vigilius who did not wish for the condemnation of Theodore of Mopsuestia, saying that condemning the dead was of no use. Similarly, He did not want for the Letter of Ibas to be condemned, because it met with approval at Chalcedon.

My question is, if Justinian was a semi-monophysite heretic as the quotation would imply, why does the Catholic Church not reject the Fifth Ecumenical Council, which could also be said to be semi-monophysite because of its condemnation of the Three Chapters and allowance for he use of the formula “out of two natures” as well as “in two natures”?

I find that analysis of Justinian’s orthodoxy to be a bit strange, to be honest.
 
Nine_Two said:
I haven’t seen either of these things on the news, so that doesn’t seem to be a very fair request. You’re using anecdotal evidence. The fact is what happened behind the Iron Curtain isn’t well known to anyone who hasn’t sought out the information.
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A man baptized only on his deathbed? And Constantius II, who succeeded Constantine, also an Arian sympathizer. 🤷 Oh I forgot Constantine established Constantinople:thumbsup:

The Catholic Church does not make a person a Saint but it is the life led by the person that causes there Saintness. As you believe so it will be. 👍

In 336 AD, Constantine ordered the Bishop of Alexandria to give Arius Communion, but the latter died right before he was to receive. As the Lord said, Behold I come quick.

Constantine died in 337. Yes a very documented account of the man exists.

Holy Mary,
pray for us.
Holy Mother of God,
pray for us.
Holy Virgin of virgins,
pray for us.
Mother of Christ,
pray for us.
Mother of divine grace,
pray for us.
Mother most pure,
pray for us.
Mother most chaste,
pray for us.
Mother inviolate,
pray for us.
Mother undefiled,
pray for us.
Mother most amiable,
pray for us.
Mother most admirable,
pray for us.
Mother of good counsel,
pray for us.
Mother of our Creator,
pray for us.
Mother of our Savior,
pray for us.
Virgin most prudent,
pray for us.
Virgin most venerable,
pray for us.
Virgin most renowned,
pray for us.
Virgin most powerful,
pray for us.
Virgin most merciful,
pray for us.
Virgin most faithful,
pray for us.
Mirror of justice,
pray for us.
Seat of wisdom,
pray for us.
Cause of our joy,
pray for us.
Spiritual vessel,
pray for us.
Vessel of honor,
pray for us.
Singular vessel of devotion,
pray for us.
Mystical rose,
pray for us.
Tower of David,
pray for us.
Tower of ivory,
pray for us.
House of gold,
pray for us.
Ark of the Covenant,
pray for us.
Gate of Heaven,
pray for us.
Morning star,
pray for us.
Health of the sick,
pray for us.
Refuge of sinners,
pray for us.
Comforter of the afflicted,
pray for us.
Help of Christians,
pray for us.
Queen of angels,
pray for us.
Queen of patriarchs,
pray for us.
Queen of prophets,
pray for us.
Queen of apostles,
pray for us.
Queen of martyrs,
pray for us.
Queen of confessors,
pray for us.
Queen of virgins,
pray for us.
Queen of all saints,
pray for us.
Queen conceived without Original Sin,
pray for us.
Queen assumed into Heaven,
pray for us.
Queen of the most holy Rosary,
pray for us.
Queen of peace,
pray for us.

Amen, 👍
 
Nine_Two said:
Just because they follow a line of action that disagrees with what you think is right doesn’t mean they are licking the boots of those who also disagree with you.

I agree with them on the Syria issue. Overthrowing these dictatorships has only led to Islamists coming to power.

I very much doubt Putin is holding the Church hostage. From what I’ve seen his policies are generally favourable to them, and they very likely support him partially because he is a member of the church, but also out of fear of an anti-clerical party coming to power (as has happened in the west, and even worse, in Russia, still in recent memory).
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Amen Nine-Two, a voice of reason: first on the results of these disastrous Islamic-Fundamentalist Revolutions (aka ‘uprisings’) in the Mideast and second for the more nuanced look into Russian politics…a complicated issue if there ever was one. Putin, whatever his past faults may be, is a practicing Christian, and devout from what I know of him.

Please rest assured that RCs who have studied Russian history have an appreciation for her situation, and the absolutely tremendous obstacles the ROC has overcome to continue preaching the Gospel. I don’t normally chime in on these matters, but I fear many RCs have no notion of the Communist League of the Militant Godless and the awful crimes they committed in Russia. My own $.02, I find it EXTREMELY naive how many of my fellow Westerners, Americans, are always so quick to support democracy at any cost, when it could lead to a virtual holocaust of Christians: Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Libya, and perhaps soon Syria come to mind.

I may get shouted down by my fellow RCs, but I get so tired about people condemning others in most un-Christian ways when they have a very limited idea about history.
 
TevereNauta said:
Amen Nine-Two, a voice of reason: first on the results of these disastrous Islamic-Fundamentalist Revolutions (aka ‘uprisings’) in the Mideast and second for the more nuanced look into Russian politics…a complicated issue if there ever was one. Putin, whatever his past faults may be, is a practicing Christian, and devout from what I know of him.

Please rest assured that RCs who have studied Russian history have an appreciation for her situation, and the absolutely tremendous obstacles the ROC has overcome to continue preaching the Gospel. I don’t normally chime in on these matters, but I fear many RCs have no notion of the Communist League of the Militant Godless and the awful crimes they committed in Russia. My own $.02, I find it EXTREMELY naive how many of my fellow Westerners, **Americans, are always so quick to support democracy at any cost, when it could lead to a virtual holocaust of Christians: Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Libya, and perhaps soon Syria come to mind. **

I may get shouted down by my fellow RCs, but I get so tired about people condemning others in most un-Christian ways when they have a very limited idea about history.
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Precisely! The propagation of democracy is not fundamentally Christian, especially when it is bought with the blood of good Christian men and women. Nowhere are we instructed to bring democracy and secular ‘freedom’ to the world in the Scriptures, we are instructed to bring to the world the freedom that living in Christ gives.
 
Cavaradossi said:
Precisely! The propagation of democracy is not fundamentally Christian, especially when it is bought with the blood of good Christian men and women. Nowhere are we instructed to bring democracy and secular ‘freedom’ to the world in the Scriptures, we are instructed to bring to the world the freedom that living in Christ gives.
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From your keyboard to the Good Lord’s eyes sir.
 
TevereNauta said:
Amen Nine-Two, a voice of reason: first on the results of these disastrous Islamic-Fundamentalist Revolutions (aka ‘uprisings’) in the Mideast and second for the more nuanced look into Russian politics…a complicated issue if there ever was one. Putin, whatever his past faults may be, is a practicing Christian, and devout from what I know of him.

Please rest assured that RCs who have studied Russian history have an appreciation for her situation, and the absolutely tremendous obstacles the ROC has overcome to continue preaching the Gospel. I don’t normally chime in on these matters, but I fear many RCs have no notion of the Communist League of the Militant Godless and the awful crimes they committed in Russia. My own $.02, I find it EXTREMELY naive how many of my fellow Westerners, Americans, are always so quick to support democracy at any cost, when it could lead to a virtual holocaust of Christians: Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Libya, and perhaps soon Syria come to mind.

I may get shouted down by my fellow RCs, but I get so tired about people condemning others in most un-Christian ways when they have a very limited idea about history.
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Please do not mistake my comments on the Russian Orthodox Church’s silence on Syria as a endorsement of military action is Syria, they are two separate things. I feel the Church has a moral obligation to stand up and speak out against atrocities whether they are committed against Christians or not. I do not however, condone the repression of human rights under totalitarian regimes that offer “protection” to Christians by torturing and killing those opposed to its autocratic policies, whether they be Christian or Muslim.
I believe democracy is fundamentally alien to Middle East culture. Look at whats happening in Egypt; overthrow dictator, replace with ultra-conservative Islamic government, end up with new dictator, repeat.
And finally, as a fault of my own, I have a hard time believing ANY politician is doing anything more than trying to buy votes by touting their religious credentials, whether that’s Putin in Russia or Santorum here.
 
TevereNauta said:
Please rest assured that RCs who have studied Russian history have an appreciation for her situation, and the absolutely tremendous obstacles the ROC has overcome to continue preaching the Gospel. I don’t normally chime in on these matters, but I fear many RCs have no notion of the Communist League of the Militant Godless and the awful crimes they committed in Russia. My own $.02, I find it EXTREMELY naive how many of my fellow Westerners, Americans, are always so quick to support democracy at any cost, when it could lead to a virtual holocaust of Christians: Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Libya, and perhaps soon Syria come to mind.
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👍
 
holmj2674 said:
I have a hard time believing ANY politician is doing anything more than trying to buy votes by touting their religious credentials, whether that’s Putin in Russia or Santorum here.
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Basic issue throughout the world. Once in a Blue Moon a sound Moral-Ethical leader appears. I don’t see any at the moment. Including our Christian leaders in Obama and Putin.

However, Putin support isn’t because he is a member of the church as suggested either. Its because their is FOOD on the shelves in the market place today. Corrupt politics, fixed elections, intolerance of freedom of speech are not part of the church. Putin picked the two candidates he ran against.
 
Hesychios said:
It seems you have a problem with some Catholic saints.

Don’t take this wrong, but you are not fit to judge him.
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Were not talking about a “Catholic Saint”, and don’t take this wrong but obviously you arn’t either.
 
holmj2674 said:
And finally, as a fault of my own, I have a hard time believing ANY politician is doing anything more than trying to buy votes by touting their religious credentials, whether that’s Putin in Russia or Santorum here.
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I’ve never once heard of Putin touting his religious credentials.
 
GaryTaylor said:
A man baptized only on his deathbed? And Constantius II, who succeeded Constantine, also an Arian sympathizer. 🤷 Oh I forgot Constantine established Constantinople:thumbsup:

The Catholic Church does not make a person a Saint but it is the life led by the person that causes there Saintness. As you believe so it will be. 👍

In 336 AD, Constantine ordered the Bishop of Alexandria to give Arius Communion, but the latter died right before he was to receive. As the Lord said, Behold I come quick.

Constantine died in 337. Yes a very documented account of the man exists.

Amen, 👍
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Gary, are you saying the website I quoted & posted earlier ~ catholic.org ~ is wrong about CTG…??
St. Constantine the Great
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Feastday: May 21
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Junior Emperor and emperor called the “Thirteenth Apostle” in the East. The son of Constantius I Chlorus, junior emperor and St. Helena, Constantine was raised on the court of co-Emperor Diocletian.
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When his father died in 306, Constantine was declared junior emperor of York, England, by the local legions and earned a place as a ruler of the Empire by defeating of his main rivals at the battle of the Milvian Bridge in 312.
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According to legend, he adopted the insignia of Christ, the chi-rho, and placed it upon his labarum - the military standards that held the banners his armies carried into battle to vanquish their pagan enemies. His purple banners were inscribed with the Latin for “In this sign conquer.”
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Constantine then shared rule of the Empire with Licinius Licinianus, exerting his considerable influence upon his colleague to secure the declaration of Christianity to be a free religion. When, however, Licinius and Constantine launched a persecution of the Christians, Constantine marched to the East and routed his opponent at the battle of Adrianople.
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Constantine was the most dominating figure of his lifetime, towering over his contemporaries, including Pope Sylvester I. He presided over the Council of Nicaea, gave extensive grants of land and property to the Church, founded the Christian city of Constantinople to serve as his new capital, and undertook a long-sighted program of Christianization for the whole of the Roman Empire.
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he was baptized a Christian only on his deathbed, Constantine nevertheless was a genuinely important figure in Christian history and was revered as a saint, especially in the Eastern Church.
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catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=2731
 
I never said anyone was wrong or right about anything. I merely stated recorded historic facts. Nor was there any judgement but a question mark.

Should one choose to pray for his intercession, I say go for it.
 
GaryTaylor said:
I never said anyone was wrong or right about anything. I merely stated recorded historic facts. Nor was there any judgement but a question mark.

Should one choose to pray for his intercession, I say go for it.
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OK - I misunderstood.
 
I pretty much stay in the realm of Jesus, Mary and Joseph a few of the Doctors of the Church. Yes I read the sight, New Advent is bit more detailed. However, I like their sight.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Were not talking about a “Catholic Saint”, and don’t take this wrong but obviously you arn’t either.
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He is indeed a Catholic saint.

When you attack him or even question his sainthood you insult your fellow Eastern rite Catholics who have him on their calendar. Perhaps in your eagerness to differentiate yourself and your church from the Orthodox you overlook that sort of thing.

As for me you are right, I am no saint by a long shot. I accept your criticism.
 
Hesychios said:
Perhaps in your eagerness to differentiate yourself and your church from the Orthodox you overlook that sort of thing.

As for me you are right, I am no saint by a long shot. I accept your criticism.
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I know who the man is, or I wouldn’t have commented on facts of his life. What I find reprehensible is your constant attacks year after year on the Rosary but you choose to wave this flag, interesting, that is why I posted the Litany with my comment “to remind you”. Perhaps you didn’t catch that? There’s my issue to be perfectly direct with you. So who’s eager to differentiate what?

And I’m pretty confident all humans are sinners.
 
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