Russian-Orthodox-tell-Archbishop-of-Canterbury-ordain-women-bishops-and-you-can-forget-about-unity

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What many Roman Catholics don’t seem to realize is that Anglicans who have left the Church of England and the Episcopal Church in the US over the ordination of women and the move toward same sex “marriage” and ordination of openly (non-celibate) homosexual men have more than one option. While some have joined the Anglican Ordinariate, over a million others have formed new, orthodox Anglican churches composed of Christians who defend holy matrimony, consider homosexual activity to be sinful, and refuse the ordination of women. They are doing their best to carry on Christ’s work within the Anglican tradition despite the moral relativism that has subverted Canterbury. I pray that they flourish.
 
Faithdancer said:
What many Roman Catholics don’t seem to realize is that Anglicans who have left the Church of England and the Episcopal Church in the US over the ordination of women and the move toward same sex “marriage” and ordination of openly (non-celibate) homosexual men have more than one option. While some have joined the Anglican Ordinariate, over a million others have formed new, orthodox Anglican churches composed of Christians who defend holy matrimony, consider homosexual activity to be sinful, and refuse the ordination of women. They are doing their best to carry on Christ’s work within the Anglican tradition despite the moral relativism that has subverted Canterbury. I pray that they flourish.
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That’s what is referred to as the Anglican Continuum. Started back in 1979. Many jurisdictions. Still sputtering along.

GKC

Posterus traditus Anglicanus
 
Faithdancer said:
What many Roman Catholics don’t seem to realize is that Anglicans who have left the Church of England and the Episcopal Church in the US over the ordination of women and the move toward same sex “marriage” and ordination of openly (non-celibate) homosexual men have more than one option. While some have joined the Anglican Ordinariate, over a million others have formed new, orthodox Anglican churches composed of Christians who defend holy matrimony, consider homosexual activity to be sinful, and refuse the ordination of women. They are doing their best to carry on Christ’s work within the Anglican tradition despite the moral relativism that has subverted Canterbury. I pray that they flourish.
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Indeed and they are growing quickly, while their liberal counterparts are in total collapse. I think also recently the South Carolina Episcopal Church seceded from the national church.
 
FabiusMaximus said:
Indeed and they are growing quickly, while their liberal counterparts are in total collapse. I think also recently the South Carolina Episcopal Church seceded from the national church.
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The Diocese of South Carolina, one of two Episcopal Dioceses in the state, left the Episcopal Church, yes. Complicated issues, but roughly as discussed here.

Legal battles are following, naturally.

GKC
 
Thats one of the many things I admire about the Orthodox Christians.

Straight talking.

Unapologetic, straight forward, robustly expressed, masculine Christianity - not the mealy mouthed equivocation of protestantism, which seeks even secular approval over that of the Papacy.

Its resoundingly clear where our unification efforts should be directed - East of Rome, not West.
 
SAVINGRACE said:
I know and you know that the CC does not endorse heretical doctrines but the man on the street watching a 5minute newspot or reading a 100word article doesn’t. That is why the majority of our critics do not understand why we don’t just follow the lead of the Anglicans and endorse women or openly gay priests.
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Great post, 100% correct.

I cannot say I am enthusiastic about ecumenicalism. It seems like an effort to mix truth with error and so it is an inherently flawed and self-defeating enterprise.

Ive never met any Protestant (any denomination) who ever showed the slightest interest in Christian unity, or even had the slightest respect for the Catholic Church.

While Catholics have made moves towards breaking down barriers - moving to vernacular worship, holding ecumenical services etc - Protestants have only ever seen fit to move further and further from the truth and indulge themselves with secular trends and concepts - gay blessings, women priests, unlimited divorce and remarriage, you name it.

The Orthodox are a different kettle of fish, obviously, and we must never falter in our efforts to properly reconcile with them.
 
GWright said:
Ive never met any Protestant (any denomination) who ever showed the slightest interest in Christian unity, or even had the slightest respect for the Catholic Church.
.
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Well… you just met one, me. Yesterday went to a 5 pm Mass in St. James cathedral with the Catholic godparents of my third child.

The Gospel was preached well and good, and I was content. My children practiced genuflecting, and I appreciated the care and dignity of the confection. I appreciated the changes to the Mass - they were well and good. We received a blessing, and communed in spirit with those good people around us.
 
benjohnson said:
Well… you just met one, me. Yesterday went to a 5 pm Mass in St. James cathedral with the Catholic godparents of my third child.

The Gospel was preached well and good, and I was content. My children practiced genuflecting, and I appreciated the care and dignity of the confection. I appreciated the changes to the Mass - they were well and good. We received a blessing, and communed in spirit with those good people around us.
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That can be a rather difficult area to negotiate and one which requires precision in terminology. Over 12 years ago, I personally got in trouble with my pastor for acting as, what some perceived to be a “godparent” at the Baptism of a friend of mine’s daughter outside of the Catholic faith. In essence, what I consented to was only promising to ensure the religious education of the child if something had happened to her mother. This is somewhat more in line (albeit not perfectly) with attending the Baptism as a *Christian witness * for someone who is baptised into a different Christian denomination, which is permissible. In the event that something had happened to her mother , given that the mother herself is a baptised yet fallen away Catholic - I most definitely would’ve been obliged to teach the child first about the Catholic faith.

But for a Catholic to be a godparent to a child baptised into a different Christian denomination is, as far as we’re aware, still not permissible .

Perhaps the correct intended term would be *Christian witnesses *- as opposed to godparents.

The Role of Godparents , Father William Saunders ; CATHOLIC EDUCATION RESOURCE CENTER
 
NeedImprovement said:
But for a Catholic to be a godparent to a child baptised into a different Christian denomination is, as far as we’re aware, still not permissible .
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I’m absolutely sure it not permitted in my church, and I’m absolutely certain you are correct.

It is not to be done. Verboten! Unsound!

And yet God calls us to kneel together. If we need to use other terms to describe the relationship then you will hear those words, but my heart speaks otherwise.

My pastor knew the Godparents (we call them sponsors) were Catholic and after interviewing them extensively he gave his consent. We recited our vows as parents. They recited the vows to help bring up this child of God in the church and the congregation recited their vows as well. My pastor accepted those vows and the child was baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

So there it is. It has been done. If there is fault, may I bare it entirely.

I do admit that we don’t talk about it much so as not to cause scandal, but they have been a blessing for my and my children in a life of faith. Frankly, if my child became Catholic, I would be content.

I have three children, and frankly at this time, the only sponsors of my children before God who have bothered to perform their duty are these good Catholics. If I had to do it all over again, all three of my children would be so blessed.
 
Tomster said:
Why is that GKC?
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Because Anglicans are a motley crew. Some understand that the concept of a valid priesthood, with valid orders, as held by the undivided Church, does not permit of anything other than a male priesthood/episcopate. Others are more impressed/driven by contemporary concepts, of equality, of fairness, of non-discrimination, unrelated to sacramental validity.

Of late, Anglicans have taken to organizing themselves along this and other points of division.

GKC

posterus traditus Anglicanus, Anglicanus-Catholicus
 
benjohnson said:
I’m absolutely sure it not permitted in my church, and I’m absolutely certain you are correct.

It is not to be done. Verboten! Unsound!

And yet God calls us to kneel together. If we need to use other terms to describe the relationship then you will hear those words, but my heart speaks otherwise.

My pastor knew the Godparents (we call them sponsors) were Catholic and after interviewing them extensively he gave his consent. We recited our vows as parents. They recited the vows to help bring up this child of God in the church and the congregation recited their vows as well. My pastor accepted those vows and the child was baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

So there it is. It has been done. If there is fault, may I bare it entirely.

I do admit that we don’t talk about it much so as not to cause scandal, but they have been a blessing for my and my children in a life of faith. Frankly, if my child became Catholic, I would be content.

I have three children, and frankly at this time, the only sponsors of my children before God who have bothered to perform their duty are these good Catholics. If I had to do it all over again, all three of my children would be so blessed.
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I applaud your pastor on the proper use of pastoral discretion! I know my own pastor has refused non-Lutherans from serving as Godparents, but has also made exception for practicing Catholics, so long as they were comfortable. Thanks for sharing, Ben.
 
My focus is on what the Catholic Church teaches , and how it applied to my own case - to my own soul. The mother was a very close friend of mine . She had originally been married within the Catholic Church but sadly the marriage of two wonderful persons eventually fell apart.

I was asked to ensure that her infant daughter she bore several years subsequently, would
“receive some sort of religious education if something ever happens to me.”
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That was an easy enough promise to make. But to attend the baptism into another Christian denomination of her daughter, standing close to the font with that intention – in the absence of a godfather , unless I’m wearing a big sign for all to see which says :

[SIGN] I’m only a Christian witness to this Baptism – I’m not her godfather” [/SIGN]

. . . it just isn’t right – because it conveys an erroneous impression about our Catholic faith . So frankly I personally* wouldn’t *be able to *do it all over again *for several reasons – even if there were also godparents or sponsors present first – so there could be no mistaken impression.

Here’s the clincher:

Part of the “ceremony” involved a “communion service” ( cut squares of processed bread slices with little 1 ounce plastic cups of grape juice - :doh2: . . . :ouch: ) . That’s something I hadn’t anticipated – no one had told me about this , and it was precisely then I realized that I was squarely planted in the **worst place ** with the best of intentions. I abstained from what would’ve amounted to a sacrilege for me . . . and I have yet to find the right words which could ever aptly describe the expression on her pastor’s face (he knew I was a Catholic) while he watched me passing on their little tray of cut bread squares and grape juice without consuming any.

🤷

I love my friends - but I’m not so crazy about what they were unwittingly doing to my Catholic soul with their requests.

i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/kick.gif

( @ SAVINGRACE : Sorry about that : I managed to drift away a little from the main topic ) .
 
NeedImprovement said:
My focus is on what the Catholic Church teaches , and how it applied to my own case - to my own soul.
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I’m certain that you have asked God for forgiveness and you have received it. If not, please consider going to confession to receive absolution.

I would say that your actions were born out a protective love for this child of God you saw before you - the world would be a better place if we all had your same love for God’s children.
Part of the “ceremony” involved a “communion service” … cut squares of processed bread slices with little 1 ounce plastic cups of grape juice …
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You abstained! That you resisted, and did the right thing when it may have been temporarily emotionally easier to ‘go along’ speaks well of your Catholic understating about the true body and blood of Jesus. I hope those that witnesses your steadfastness reflected on their own poor understanding.

You were a powerful witness that day - not only in love (perhaps misguided) , but in proclaiming the truth about the Eucharist!

…

I know the Catholic sponsors of my child did ask their priest, and they did review the vows with him. I don’t know if permission was granted beforehand, or if absolution was given afterwards. Perhaps I should ask… but I’m already indebted to them in many ways, so I’m afraid of the answer.
 
GKC said:
As I understand it, there is a moratorium in those parts of the ACNA who do such things, for a period of discernment. A period of discernment is something to watch warily, but I’m hopeful.

GKC
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Perhaps the LCMS may have a positive influence, as the two have started a dialogue. If not, and ACNA goes down that road, I would see no future for said dialogue.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
Perhaps the LCMS may have a positive influence, as the two have started a dialogue. If not, and ACNA goes down that road, I would see no future for said dialogue.

Jon
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And I would have no interest in the ACNA.

GKC
 
JonNC said:
I’ve gotten the impression that the Continuum is not your cup of tea. Yes?

Jon
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No, I’m in the Continuum. Strictly speaking, the ACNA is not since they see themselves as maneuvering to remain in the Communion. A number of African Anglican jurisdictions who are Communion members consider them such. A test will be if ++Duncan is invited to the next Lambeth Conference, in 5 years. I assume not.

GKC

posterus traditus Anglicanus
 
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