Russian punk band 'blasphemy' trial - thoughts?

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7 yrs for a stupid stunt is a bit harsh, and i would be surprised if they served 7 yrs,

but i got to ask, did the band have a permit to play where they did ?

if they did, then they should not have been arrested, why they would want to play on or near a catholic cathedral is bonkers .

if they did not have a permit, then it was their own stupidity that got them in trouble to begin with.

They mine as well have walked into a government building and tried to play their music with what ever lyrics about anti this that or what ever.
 
Bill_Martin said:
The sticking pont or me is that they are facing 7 years in jail. That’s ridiculous for this type of offense. They should be punished though.
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It might be too much, in the US it’d be community service or a few months in jail
 
UnityofTrinity said:
If they were doing it outside the church you can atleast defend them legally.But inside the church is another matter. Even if they were in the US or the UK they would be criminalized. Could you imagine having a bunch of masked teenagers screaming in your house? God I would call the police instantaneously:D
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That’s the best way to describe punk music. Improve the world, imprison a punk band 😃
 
UnityofTrinity said:
Angry Atheist do you think it’d be legal here? Given that they trespassed private property? Would you like a bunch of teenagers to trespass your house and mess it up? Wouldn’t it be nice with some profane grafiti on ur walls?
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I am not saying that they shouldn’t be punished.
I’m saying that they should not be punished (or punished more) just for offending Putin and/or the Church.
 
DL82 said:
m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19040414

It seems strange from a Western perspective to think of such things as criminal offenses. At the same time, perhaps we have become so used to secular musicians inside our church sanctuaries in the West that we don’t even notice the profanation of the Church that it represents.

I would be interested in what the Eastern Christians on this board, Catholic or Orthodox, think of this -whenever not the act itself, which is clearly deeply offensive, but the idea of the state prosecuting people for causing offense against the Church.
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The actions of the three women certainly did meet the definition of hooliganism (Merriam-Webster): “rowdy, violent, or destructive behavior”. I don’t know the legal definition, however “All three members of the Russian punk band ***** Riot have pleaded not guilty to charges of hooliganism, after they sang a political protest song in Moscow’s main cathedral.” says BBC. I watched the video of them in Church.

bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19046792

The women face up to seven years in prison for an unsanctioned “protest prayer”. Was it the Church being defended here? They called on the Virgin Mary to “cast Putin out”.
Read more: nydailynews.com/news/world/putin-punk-band-*****-riot-punishment-severe-article-1.1128307#ixzz22Xav5Tyy

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1128302.1344011881!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/russia4n-5-web.jpg

Catechism

1978 The natural law is a participation in God’s wisdom and goodness by man formed in the image of his Creator. It expresses the dignity of the human person and forms the basis of his fundamental rights and duties.
1979 The natural law is immutable, permanent throughout history. The rules that express it remain substantially valid. It is a necessary foundation for the erection of moral rules and civil law.

This is not such a case, but we know that the state can be justified even to death to defend lives.

**2267 **The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor.
 
Here is the issue that I see. In order to protest politics (and the possible involvement of the Church in politics) they storm a Church.

To me, this looks like protesting Obama’s culture of death by storming the alter while he’s attending services. It’s not appropriate, it’s the wrong venue, and it definately won’t get the reaction you hope it will.

Now, I’ve had to protect my identity at protests before, but this was always out in public. Folks, if you’re entering a Church wearing a mask, you’re very likely doing it wrong.
 
What if (God forbid) your Archbishop is publically defending a political system that is imposing abortion, euthanasia, and is very corrupt and violent. And what if the journalists have been silenced and killed.

Maybe you would see a group of girls who protest in the Cathedral as heroes and potential martyrs. Maybe they give themselves an offensive name in order to get world wide attention.

List of journalists killed in Russia in Putin’s era: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia#Under_Putin_.28incl._2nd_Chechen_conflict.29

If the journalists were killed in your country, and your Church was defending the corrupt regime what would YOU do?
 
triumphguy said:
What if (God forbid) your Archbishop is publically defending a political system that is imposing abortion, euthanasia, and is very corrupt and violent. And what if the journalists have been silenced and killed.

Maybe you would see a group of girls who protest in the Cathedral as heroes and potential martyrs. Maybe they give themselves an offensive name in order to get world wide attention.

List of journalists killed in Russia in Putin’s era: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia#Under_Putin_.28incl._2nd_Chechen_conflict.29

If the journalists were killed in your country, and your Church was defending the corrupt regime what would YOU do?
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Yup. I can’t see how anyone could defend the Putin regime. Just because there may not be a good alternative in Russia right now does not mean that anyone should praise the status quo if it is full of evil.
 
Jharek - I’m not being personal here, my question above is hypothetical. I’m trying to find the truth through dialogue and research. It’s an important issue in today’s world where many countries are busy silencing their people -the west included.

So help me out a bit…

I don’t take it personally if someone insults the Pope - it spurs me to find the truth. I believed what I had read about Pius XII, then with Google I was able to find the truth.

So, is it true or false that the Hierarchy is supporting the regime or not? I can only read what I see on the internet.
 
Well to be honest a lot of discussion on any forum is really a caricature.😊

We paint in broad black and white strokes on such threads as this, without much room for subtlety.

So the Orthodox Church in Russia is in a transition stage from the Communist regime to the present then?

The Church was underground during communism I believe. Is it still under duress?
 
Occurs to me that these girls must have been offended as well, or they wouldn’t have done this. The fact that half of your family is anything doesn’t mean people can’t express their opinions. It was a good point, though not quite the same. After all, if a local Archbishop is acting the fool, you write to the Vatican (the council on something-something, I forget. Please remind me). If a Patriarch is acting the fool… Well, I guess this would be similar to the kind of thing I’d do. Minus the vulgarity, but yeah.

And no, I’m not saying that His Beatitude is guilty of any wrong-doing. But it was a valid point.
 
After reading about this, All I can say for those in the US is, that we should get on our knees and thank G*d that our country has the Bill of Rights which guarentees our Freedom of Speech as well as Freedom of Religion!
As much as I do not care for this type of music, and abhore most of their lyrics, I would fight for their right to express themselves in our country.
What happens in other countries is their business…it is their right to be wrong. It is their country. If they want to change it, they could always make the ultimate sacrifice and do as our political forefathers did.
 
Crescentinus said:
Either the BBC did not develop the story or this is a cover-up so as to somewhat demonize the ROC. In any case, the BBC had conducted un-journalistic conduct regarding the article.
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That would be completely unlike the BBC afterall 🤷
 
Darran said:
That would be completely unlike the BBC afterall 🤷
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The BBC is not alone in this, last time I checked.
The Canadian counterpart of the BBC, the CBC, has similar problems regarding developments in the story when it comes to news.
 
TheDoors said:
Occurs to me that these girls must have been offended as well, or they wouldn’t have done this. The fact that half of your family is anything doesn’t mean people can’t express their opinions. It was a good point, though not quite the same. After all, if a local Archbishop is acting the fool, you write to the Vatican (the council on something-something, I forget. Please remind me). If a Patriarch is acting the fool… Well, I guess this would be similar to the kind of thing I’d do. Minus the vulgarity, but yeah.

And no, I’m not saying that His Beatitude is guilty of any wrong-doing. But it was a valid point.
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George_Stegmeir said:
After reading about this, All I can say for those in the US is, that we should get on our knees and thank G*d that our country has the Bill of Rights which guarentees our Freedom of Speech as well as Freedom of Religion!
As much as I do not care for this type of music, and abhore most of their lyrics, I would fight for their right to express themselves in our country.
What happens in other countries is their business…it is their right to be wrong. It is their country. If they want to change it, they could always make the ultimate sacrifice and do as our political forefathers did.
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You are both missing the point. They are being charged for hooliganism, that is, for their disruptive act on property where they had no permission to be. What they were singing is inconsequential; although, the offensive nature of the lyrics bears witness to their ill intentions, and may cause them to be given a stricter sentence.
 
Whatever the charge may be, I support the incarceration of these women.
 
What these women did made (some of) us do some research.

Putin (no doubt worried about bad press) has himself said he does not support a stiff sentence.

Freedom of expression sometimes looks ugly - but silence is uglier.

Like the car sticker says:** If you think education is expensive try ignorance.**

Here’s a version based on these events:

If you think freedom of expression is distasteful try censorship.

BTW Bearer - you’ve got two links in your sig - one on rights of conscience and one on the HHS mandate. These girls are fighting the same battle!
 
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