M
Madaglan
Guest
Give them a light sentence; meanwhile, install trap doors in the solea.
- Status
P
pnewton
Guest
Of course I noticed how you worded your posts. I do read them carefully. That is why I did the exact same thing!
Well, our posts are there. Others can determine for themselves whether you made your case for charity.
P
pnewton
Guest
FYI - A reminder for anyone reading this thread, the sentence was two years, not seven years and not life.
N
Nigel7
Guest
D
dzheremi
Guest
Apparently you missed the posts following that of CarloMagnus, where several of his fellow Catholics took him to task (and rightfully so) for posting such ridiculous nonsense. But don’t let that stop you from getting hung up on being right about a silly detail that in no way detracts from pnewton’s point… 
P
pnewton
Guest
It is easy to miss one post. It is also easy to miss why it is you being quoted when such heated words are used.
N
Nigel7
Guest
Of course I saw that. Never said they didn’t. Credit to them for taking him to task for it. What he posted certainly had nothing to do with “Catholic moral teaching”.
Wrong. In case you missed it, pnewton’s point (as I quoted him) was that NO ONE had posted anything in this thread contrary to “Catholic moral teaching”, when obviously someone had. Several in fact had.But don’t let that stop you from getting hung up on being right about a silly detail that in no way detracts from pnewton’s point…
P
pnewton
Guest
Yes, I missed that post, one in more than a hundred. . Yet you also said, “I thought this was a forum mostly of Catholic Christians. Those girls didn’t harm anyone. Where’s the forgiveness?” Do you think it is proper to question whether this is a Christian forum based on one poster, or even a minority?
C
Cavaradossi
Guest
Can we use it if the priest sings the Gospel reading badly?
N
Nigel7
Guest
I was surprised at the apparent majority here who did not protest the 2 year prison sentence for these girls little song and dance, and who rather found such punishment justified, or even light.
I expected more charity, forgiveness, and mercy from a predominantly Western Christian community such as this. That is all.
Was what these girls did offensive? Yes, I agree it was offensive. I attend an inner-city Cathedral daily and so I’ve seen disturbances at Mass plenty of times. Comes with the territory.
But was what these girls did criminal, especially to a level of being put behind bars for 2 years? I certainly do not believe so. I believe that it is very counter-productive for the Church, and the government, and certainly counterproductive for those girls and their peers whose distaste for the Catholic Church will surely only grow as a result of all of this.
That is my opinion.
D
dzheremi
Guest
Russia is not your parish, Nigel, and neither does anything that happens there necessarily accord with Catholic moral teaching, it being a primarily Eastern Orthodox country. All I’m really getting out of your posts is that you’re shocked and offended that more people don’t agree with you. Fine. We’d all like more people to agree with us, wouldn’t we? But that does not change the laws in Russia, which is what these girls broke.
As they used to say, “If you don’t like it, move to Russia!”
(…and then get citizenship and vote to change the laws governing public gatherings/demonstration/behavior and/or kick Putin out of office)
Until then, might I suggest that you at least make the tiniest bit of effort to look beyond the end of your own nose? Not every place is like the West, nor subscribes to Western values or the underlying cultural assumptions that make them seem most reasonable and right.
As they used to say, “If you don’t like it, move to Russia!”
(…and then get citizenship and vote to change the laws governing public gatherings/demonstration/behavior and/or kick Putin out of office)
Until then, might I suggest that you at least make the tiniest bit of effort to look beyond the end of your own nose? Not every place is like the West, nor subscribes to Western values or the underlying cultural assumptions that make them seem most reasonable and right.
N
Nigel7
Guest
lol
Oh my.
We’re not in Russia, dzheremi. This is CatholicAnswers forums. A predominantly Western Christian community. Hence, as I’ve already explained (ad-nauseam) my surprise that people around here are generally in agreement with the Russian authorities in sentencing these girls to 2 years in prison for their little song and dance routine.
dzheremi, by your logic then we should all be in agreement with, for example, the government of Sudan’s beheading of a man for supposed “sorcery” (yes that was a recent story out of Sudan), simply because the Sudanese authorities say that such is the punishment for such so-called “crimes”.
We are actually free to have opinions of our own here, dzheremmi, and disagree with, for example, the Russian authorities, as in the case of “P*ssy Riot”.
See the title of this thread. The OP, in the title of this thread, asked for our thoughts. Those are my thoughts on this matter. My thought are certainly NOT required to conform to the policies of the Russian authorities, as you seem to be implying that they should.
This is not an instance of me not looking past my nose, as you claim, dzheremi. That is actually simply a case of me not agreeing with the Russian authorities in their decision to imprison these girls for 2 years for what they’ve done. That is all.
N
Nigel7
Guest
J
JoeBowen7
Guest
I see it as more than a little song and dance. the language used in the lyrics was garbage language that is not appropriate. In fact, I suspect you would be in trouble if you use that language on this forum. And it is an insult and offensive to Orthodox Christians as it would be to Catholics also to have criminals barge into your Church and perform with these lewd, garbage lyrics in front of an iconostasis.
Two years in a prison camp seems pretty lenient to me.
D
dzheremi
Guest
So because they’re Western Christians (though this particular thread, being on the Eastern sub-forum, probably attracts more Easterners and those sympathetic to the Russian Orthodox Church than others would) they cannot or perhaps should not recognize the right of the Russian state to prosecute people who break the law, and sentence them accordingly? It’s not that I don’t agree with your right to an opinion, I just don’t see how people who agree with the government action (maybe not the length of the sentence, but the idea that there should be some concrete ramifications for this, not, as we see from various Western governments, calls to respect these girls’ “freedom of speech”) are somehow not being good Christians or good Catholics or whatever. This case is not a litmus test of religious faith OR free speech rights (the girls were not arrested for having a particular opinion, but for something more akin to disturbing the peace by the way they chose to express that opinion).
B
bpcatholic
Guest
They both may be secular, but that doesn’t mean they view the world the same way. Cultural traditions still affect us whether we realise it or not.
P
pnewton
Guest
I found this rather interesting poll.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/*****_riot
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/*****_riot
I guess that sums up my opinion. The sentence seems disproportional, though I readily admit that I do not know the details. I do feel that even if the sentence is disproportional it is still a direct result of their own actions. Freedom of speech should never include my right to enter your house under false pretenses and film a video wish says ugly things about your mother.
A
Aramis
Guest
It’s criminal trespass. Which, in the US, gets you up to several years of jail time, depending upon the state.
Disturbing the peace can get up to a year or two, again, varying by where.
Why is it criminal trespass rather than simple trespass?
The ambon is off limits to the laity, except when brought there by clergy for specific blessings, or when serving as an altar server. In most Orthodox parishes I’ve seen, when not being used for liturgies or paraliturgical prayers, the area from the tetrapod to the corners of the iconostas is roped off…
And this is common knowledge to many Russians.
Further, they committed their unauthorized entry in order to perpetrate a crime - public performance requires a permit, which they lacked. (Noted in a couple articles on their trial.)
Hence, criminal trespass, even tho’ they did no physical damage of any note.
In Alaska, they could have gotten the same sentence. Probably wouldn’t have, but could have.
Russian law apparently lacks the clear delineations of charges that Alaskan law has. It would have been charged in Alaska as criminal trespass, disturbing the peace, and/or disorderly conduct… with a likely plead-out to the two misdemeanors to avoid the minor felony… but they’d surely have gotten jail time, if not prison time.
It’s also worth noting that they are NOT being tried for what they said. They are being tried only for where they said it and not having had the permissions to say ANYTHING from that spot.
P
Peter_J
Guest
Well I am just shocked that you would use the qualifier “when no one has posted contrary to Catholic moral teaching” without first going back and re-reading every single post.
Shocked I say!
T
triumphguy
Guest
UK High Court judgment in DPP v Redmond-Bate case in 1997. Mr Justice Sedley:
“Free speech includes not only the inoffensive but the irritating, the contentious, the eccentric, the heretical, the unwelcome and the provocative provided it does not tend to provoke violence. Freedom only to speak inoffensively is not worth having.”
“Free speech includes not only the inoffensive but the irritating, the contentious, the eccentric, the heretical, the unwelcome and the provocative provided it does not tend to provoke violence. Freedom only to speak inoffensively is not worth having.”
- Status