All of the Jews of today can only be at best copiers of the Bible, not the authors. Then only some Israelites are, and only in certain cases they’d be called Jews (In the Book of Esther and, in the Septuagint Bible, the Book of Macchabees… any other instances?**Because you guys are only the readers of the book we have written.
Ben**
I realize you did NOT answer my question!
**Lapell, from the time that we have been involved in Biblical discussions, I have come to the conclusion that you should know much better than to conclude that I am being literal when I say that we have written the Bible. I am sorry to insult your intelligence by explaining that what I mean is that I belong to the People whose writers of the Bible were taken from. I am actually just a student of the same
**Yes, Ben. But it also strikes that any time a man of God or a prophet in the Hebrew Bible appeared, especially the prophets in the times of the Kingdom of Judah (and the Kingdom of Israel too, of course), they were not welcome to most of the sons of Israel and were not listened to, that is, taken seriously, and this is why I find it strange to read a statement which says: “We Jews wrote the Bible”… Do you now see my point?**Lapell, from the time that we have been involved in Biblical discussions, I have come to the conclusion that you should know much better than to conclude that I am being literal when I say that we have written the Bible. I am sorry to insult your intelligence by explaining that what I mean is that I belong to the People whose writers of the Bible were taken from. I am actually just a student of the same
Bible you are also.
Ben:
Don’t say, “most of the sons of Israel.” If Ahab or Jezabel kiled some Prophets, it does not mean the Jews killed those Prophets. Tell me, did the American people kill Abraham Lincoln, or John Kennedy, or Martin Luthen King? I don’t think so. Have you got the idea?
Excuse me, Ben, but here I believe the analogy doesn’t quite fit! Are you saying that most of Israel actually were behind the prophet? Judging by how vehement the messages were most of the time… maybe most of the people would not even wish to kill the prophet sent by the Almighty, but that certainly doesn’t mean that most of them were faithful in obeying to God’s requirements, far from it.
Not everyone who doesn’t let a prophet’s message influence them would kill him… one can always ignore the message or just argue it in such a way that the God’s message through the prophet’s mouth is in no danger of ever affecting them in any way!
Ben, who was Proverbs 8:22-36 talking about? Is it true or False that some one is Jewish by birth through their mother and not by the father? If your mom’s Jewish are you not Jewish?Shiloh - Genesis 49:10
When Jacob thought he was about to die, he invited all his sons unto himself at his deathbed for the last blessings. At the turn of Judah, Jacob said that the scepter would not depart from his Tribe until Shiloh came.
Christians in general assume that’s a prophecy about Jesus, and I have researched about the matter, and happened to have found out that’s not true.
The Tribe of Judah had grown to become the leader over all the other Tribes, and kept the monopoly to exert hegemony over them all. That’s the scepter that would not depart from Judah till Shiloh came.
After the death of Solomon, Prophet Ahijah from Shiloh took his coat and went out to meet Jeroboam, who was the leader of forced labor among the Northern Tribes. As the Prophet met Jeroboam, he tore his coat in twelve parts and gave ten to Jeroboam, saying that God had decided to split the Tribes in two Kingdoms, and that ten of those Tribes would be governed by Jeroboam.
That’s when Shiloh came, and Judah lost the hegemony over ten of the Tribes. (I Kings 11:29-32) It’s important to understand that Shiloh is not the Prophet who came from his home city called Shiloh, but the split between the Tribes and the secession of the Ten Tribes. Isaiah, the Prophet considered the Secession of the Ten Tribes as the worst thing to happene to Israel, second only to the destruction of those Tribes by the Assyrians. (Isa. 7:17)
Rehoboam, the King who had succeeded Solomon his father did not understand and started preparing the Country for civil war when Shemaiah, the man of God dissuaded him by making him understand that Shiloh had come. He got it and recalled the Army. (I Kings 12:21-24)
Now, kindly share with me your comments.
Ben:
You excuse me Lapell! What picture are you painting of Israel, perhaps a neighbohood of 100 or 200 Jews? Most of Israel didn’t even know or were aware that Ahab, or Jezabel or the prophets of Baal were killing the Prophets of the Lord. That’s exactly what I am saying: That almost ALL Israel were neutral to whatever was happening. If some Prophets were killed, the killing was done by political figures. Don’t you think it high time to stop with these lies that the Jewish People killed the Prophets? Then, you guys get upset when Ben reminds you all of antisemitic accusations.
**Proverbs 8:22-36 is talking about Israel. Read Exodus 4:22,23. That’s the son begotten by God.
Fascinating! So you would say all things were created through Israel from the begining of time?Would you also say Israel was the Tree of Life in Eden then? Proverbs 3:13-18& Genesis 2:9. What is the Jewish doctrine on the “Tree of Life”? Would you then say Ismael was second born of his ways?.
**No, Israel was created by necessity as the pledge to guarantee God’s promise to Noah after the Flood. (Gen. 8:21)
Thankyou, Iove to learn. But what I don’t understand is if God’s Torah is the Tree of life in Proverbs 3:13-18 then why is not the Torah in Proverbs Chapter 8 when you believe that is Israel? I admit Ismael was a mistake by Abraham and Sarah, not trusting God, but why did God go on and make him a great nation? Was that the result of sin of Abraham & Sarah not trusting God? Seems cruel to Israel that she should get punished.
Where did I say something like “the Jewish people killed the Prophets”. Ben? Where did I specifically say a thing like that? Please tell me!
**Chapter 8 of Proverbs does not only speak of God’s begotten of His firstborn, which is Israel, (v.22) but also of Wisdom in general and of Torah in particular. I am reading from the original in Hebrew.Thankyou, Iove to learn. But what I don’t understand is if God’s Torah is the Tree of life in Proverbs 3:13-18 then why is not the Torah in Proverbs Chapter 8 when you believe that is Israel? I admit Ismael was a mistake by Abraham and Sarah, not trusting God, but why did God go on and make him a great nation? Was that the result of sin of Abraham & Sarah not trusting God? Seems cruel to Israel that she should get punished.
I agree. Many Christians did not follow the teachings of Jashua. I have a deep love for Israel and the Jewish faith, but need to learn more.Do you feel Eden was a real place or just symbolic? Was the Shekinaof the Lord there? I was read a book called “The Legends of Jerusalem” I found it fascinating.
