S&P Downgrades US Credit Rating to AA-Plus

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Darryl1958 said:
OrdinaryMelkite;8217258:
What level of taxation could possible be enough to pay for the trillions of dollars that have been spent, and are being spent? Maybe I haven’t been looking hard enough, or noticing any answers form the left when I have posed these questions before?
Has Obama ever come up with a figure of how much taxation on the rich would be fair?
10% more, 20%, 95 % of everything that they have?
What rate of taxation will be necessary to pay the debt down to a sustainable level, and then pay up for Obamacare when it takes effect?
from what I understand, the millionaires and the billionaires just do not have the wealth and income to do this, and even if they did, they typically would choose to invest elsewhere rather than lose so much profit.
I mean, even the ultra-liberal movie industry goes to favorable tax regimes such as Canada, so how much more so for industries that are not even liberal. Lebron James moves to Florida for these reasons, and half the companies of California are moving to Texas in order that they have a lesser tax burden.

I mean, this doesn’t make sense to me either. It does not match up with the reality of the situation. I don’t know how this would work in the real world.

I suppose that if the liberals turned on Obama now, they would be plagued with the guilt that they would be the same kind of racists that they have always accused the Right as being for not supporting him. Frankly, I have always thought that the liberal whites protested the point of right wing racism just a little too much, and that there is a whole lot of overcompensation and projection going on here.:ehh:
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You’re right----Obama never came up with a plan. That was one of the reasons Boehner and others kept criticizing him so severely. :rolleyes:🤷
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For those of you sort of “anticipating” tomorrow------

I go to to a certain financial website (which I will not mention) and from this guy’s POV, it does not look good.

Some of his observations:
  1. The Israeli opening delayed 45 minutes, but when the market DID open, it dropped by more than seven percent. 7.6, to be exact.
  2. If you transpolate a 7.6 decline by Israeli market indices, it indicates a drop in the DOW to approximately 10, 574.
  3. Gold, of course, could considerably rise. VERY high. Japanese stocks are also already down.
  4. He is saying-------and MSM analysts as well are saying this-----DO NOT go by emotion. Do not get “excited” when trading.
  5. Have some Rolaids and maybe a barf bag handy.
Oh, and yes, Geithner is staying. Oh, great.

And the Chinese are already gloating about this.
Nothing surprising about this. That they will exploit this for all they can is also not surprising.

Just relaying thoughts and information, folks.

Take it (as always) for what it is worth.
 
OrdinaryMelkite said:
For those of you sort of “anticipating” tomorrow------

I go to to a certain financial website (which I will not mention) and from this guy’s POV, it does not look good.

Some of his observations:
  1. The Israeli opening delayed 45 minutes, but when the market DID open, it dropped by more than seven percent. 7.6, to be exact.
  2. If you transpolate a 7.6 decline by Israeli market indices, it indicates a drop in the DOW to approximately 10, 574.
  3. Gold, of course, could considerably rise. VERY high. Japanese stocks are also already down.
  4. He is saying-------and MSM analysts as well are saying this-----DO NOT go by emotion. Do not get “excited” when trading.
  5. Have some Rolaids and maybe a barf bag handy.
Oh, and yes, Geithner is staying. Oh, great.

And the Chinese are already gloating about this.
Nothing surprising about this. That they will exploit this for all they can is also not surprising.

Just relaying thoughts and information, folks.

Take it (as always) for what it is worth.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info.
 
OrdinaryMelkite said:
For those of you sort of “anticipating” tomorrow------

I go to to a certain financial website (which I will not mention) and from this guy’s POV, it does not look good.

Some of his observations:
  1. The Israeli opening delayed 45 minutes, but when the market DID open, it dropped by more than seven percent. 7.6, to be exact.
  2. If you transpolate a 7.6 decline by Israeli market indices, it indicates a drop in the DOW to approximately 10, 574.
  3. Gold, of course, could considerably rise. VERY high. Japanese stocks are also already down.
  4. He is saying-------and MSM analysts as well are saying this-----DO NOT go by emotion. Do not get “excited” when trading.
  5. Have some Rolaids and maybe a barf bag handy.
Oh, and yes, Geithner is staying. Oh, great.

And the Chinese are already gloating about this.
Nothing surprising about this. That they will exploit this for all they can is also not surprising.

Just relaying thoughts and information, folks.

Take it (as always) for what it is worth.
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Bloomberg pretty much agrees with you. Dollar slipping against yuan only surprise, probably of more significance than the downgrade.

Unless the overseas markets are looking for more U.S. leadership in the stock market, maybe this whole downgrade’s been overhyped?
 
Dow futures are down at the moment but only modestly – about 250 points last time I checked.
 
sw85 said:
Dow futures are down at the moment but only modestly – about 250 points last time I checked.
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Thanks for that, Sw85. Like I said above, though, we’ll see.

And I really hope nothing serious happens, BTW.👍
 
OrdinaryMelkite said:
Darryl1958;8217409:
You’re right----Obama never came up with a plan. That was one of the reasons Boehner and others kept criticizing him so severely. :rolleyes:🤷
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It’s comical then that Boehner would say Obama moved the goal posts if Obama wasn’t on the field. Whether or not he necessarily had a plan in writing or not, that doesn’t mean he didn’t have a plan.
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CMatt25 said:
OrdinaryMelkite;8217456:
It’s comical then that Boehner would say Obama moved the goal posts if he didn’t have a plan on the field. Whether or not he necessarily had a plan in writing or not, that doesn’t mean he didn’t have a plan.
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Then, pray tell, why did he not make his “plan” known? Even if not in writing.

Does he thinks we as a nation all are so brilliant that we can automatically connect to his brain and deduce what the heck he had in mind?

He is the President-----he was SUPPOSED to have a plan, CMatt25.

What was it, Obama? The nation demands it.

Don’t be shy.
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CMatt25 said:
It’s comical then that Boehner would say Obama moved the goal posts if Obama wasn’t on the field. Whether or not he necessarily had a plan in writing or not, that doesn’t mean he didn’t have a plan.
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So please tell us, what exactly was that plan?
Were there any specifics, or was it a rhetorical plan only.

I have asked specific questions about this already.

Multiple times he is heard advocating making the rich pay their fair share.
So who are the rich —millionaires and billionaires only, people who make 200k, or what?

And what is their ‘fair share’/

It can only be funny if people have an inkling about what the heck he is proposing. As far as I can tell, nobody privy to just the public side of the debate have a clue what his plan was.
It seems more about electioneering for the next election cycle than anything to do with a plan, as far as I can tell.

What exactly was his plan then
 
Darryl1958 said:
So please tell us, what exactly was that plan?
Were there any specifics, or was it a rhetorical plan only.

I have asked specific questions about this already.

Multiple times he is heard advocating making the rich pay their fair share.
So who are the rich —millionaires and billionaires only, people who make 200k, or what?

And what is their ‘fair share’/

It can only be funny if people have an inkling about what the heck he is proposing. As far as I can tell, nobody privy to just the public side of the debate have a clue what his plan was.
It seems more about electioneering for the next election cycle than anything to do with a plan, as far as I can tell.

What exactly was his plan then
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“Spread the wealth around.”

Remember that, Darryl?

THAT is his plan. Ultimately.👍:rolleyes:
 
OrdinaryMelkite said:
“Spread the wealth around.”

Remember that, Darryl?

THAT is his plan. Ultimately.👍:rolleyes:
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Yes, exactly. This is a point that I think Estebob was trying to drive home earlier today.

Ultimately, it is a question of who owns the wealth. Do you, or does the government?

If it is you, then taxes are required only to provide the necessary services in order to make society function and ensure that their is a sufficient safety net for the most unfortunate members.

But if government owns the wealth, then taxes are used to spread the wealth around as government sees fit. If wealth becomes deemed unfair simply because someone has more than someone else, and wealth is removed from somebody as a result of that perceived unfairness, then really wealth becomes a public commodity. Simply being wealthy is reason enough for the government to confiscate it.

Traditionally Americans have valued liberty, which includes the liberty to pursue the American dream with all the economic freedom that that entails. Leftist values however put a premium on equality of outcome rather than individual economic liberty.

Obama is a leftist. He has been clear on this point that economic disparity is unfair and that wealth ought to be spread around because of that unfairness. That is the leftist value. All of a sudden then, America does not look like such a great place to invest anymore and make a profit. That is a big part of this story of the credit rating being downgraded too.
 
Raskolnikov said:
Oh yes, the proletariat is thriving, thanks to the policies of the current admin… if by proletariat, one means major banks.
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Oh, please, Raskolnikov… :rolleyes:

And even if there is some truth in that…did they CAUSE this mess? Are they to be blamed for taking advantage of the situation?
Are we supposed to forget POTUS and Congress’s role in this?:hmmm:
 
Darryl1958 said:
Yes, exactly. This is a point that I think Estebob was trying to drive home earlier today.

Ultimately, it is a question of who owns the wealth. Do you, or does the government?

If it is you, then taxes are required only to provide the necessary services in order to make society function and ensure that their is a sufficient safety net for the most unfortunate members.

But if government owns the wealth, then taxes are used to spread the wealth around as government sees fit. If wealth becomes deemed unfair simply because someone has more than someone else, and wealth is removed from somebody as a result of that perceived unfairness, then really wealth becomes a public commodity. Simply being wealthy is reason enough for the government to confiscate it.

Traditionally Americans have valued liberty, which includes the liberty to pursue the American dream with all the economic freedom that that entails. Leftist values however put a premium on equality of outcome rather than individual economic liberty.

Obama is a leftist. He has been clear on this point that economic disparity is unfair and that wealth ought to be spread around because of that unfairness. That is the leftist value. All of a sudden then, America does not look like such a great place to invest anymore and make a profit. That is a big part of this story of the credit rating being downgraded too.
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Yep. 😦
 
Darryl1958 said:
He has been clear on this point that economic disparity is unfair and that wealth ought to be spread around because of that unfairness. That is the leftist value. All of a sudden then, America does not look like such a great place to invest anymore and make a profit. That is a big part of this story of the credit rating being downgraded too.
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Being left or right is nothing new. SS is not new. Medicare is neither. Corporate meddling with the electoral process has been going on forever.

The downgrade is a proverbial dagger thrust into all incumbents. Hope they’re all working on their excuses on how they had nothing to do with the downgrade, including the Fed chairman.
 
sw85 said:
Dow futures are down at the moment but only modestly – about 250 points last time I checked.
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We already had a big decline in stocks last week, so there may not be a big reaction after the downgrade. Somehow the markets, with the (name removed by moderator)ut of 7 billion opinions, anticipate almost everything.

It does bring up another problem for the tax and spend crowd, though. How is Obama going to get all that capital gains tax from the rich(and those in the middle class who were prudent enough to save and invest) if there are losses rather than gains? Bill Clinton benefitted from a stock market that soared beyond reason into a bubble. Where will the gains come from with an administration that wants to take away the source of wealth and redistribute it to people trained not to work or save?
 
Raskolnikov said:
Oh yes, the proletariat is thriving, thanks to the policies of the current admin… if by proletariat, one means major banks.
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If by proletariat, one means poor Democratic voter, then the poor are not thriving. Obama has not done right by them. There are now more of them, but that is the only way that they are thriving.
As for the banks, given their reluctance to loan money and the glut of housing limiting new borrowing, they are in survival mode. they are not thriving.

There are no winners here;only losers.
Well, mayber Warren Buffet and George Soros have found a way.
But they don’t represent anybody but themselves.
 
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