A
adstrinity
Guest
I thank you for showing me how humble you are by drawing attention to your humility. Why do you do this? You will get no recompense in heaven. Matthew 6:1
- Status
T
twagler
Guest
Ads,
I can’t win.
Catholic Dude…that is my point exactly. Most of the world still kept the Jewish sabbath into the 5th century. The exceptions were Rome and Alexandria.
I would agree that other parts of the Bible are important as well. So where is it justified to teach the traditions of men? I would not go as far to say that this is a minor issue, however. It is a commandment.
I am sorry all but I must retire for the night. Have an exam at 130 that is crucial to graduation.
Trav
I can’t win.
Catholic Dude…that is my point exactly. Most of the world still kept the Jewish sabbath into the 5th century. The exceptions were Rome and Alexandria.
I would agree that other parts of the Bible are important as well. So where is it justified to teach the traditions of men? I would not go as far to say that this is a minor issue, however. It is a commandment.
I am sorry all but I must retire for the night. Have an exam at 130 that is crucial to graduation.
Trav
C
Catholic_Dude
Guest
You know that the Bible didnt come along until about 300 years after Christ’s Death?
Why wouldnt Jesus tell the deciples to teach them?
It warns about them because people will attempt them, but the true Church will not be led astray.
Did Jesus leave behind the Bible? Did He mention the Bible? Then why would you put your faith in something Jesus didnt mention?
So how do we know sound doctrine when we hear/read it? If it was so easy there wouldnt be divisions like there are…Lets see what St Paul commands and authorizes Timothy to do in 1Tim…
Take a lesson here, Timothy didn have the New Testament, but he was trained and AUTHORIZED by people like Paul to Teach and Rebuke. This authority was passed down so the Truth would be preserved. The Bible is ink and paper, it needs an Authrity to teach from it.
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twagler
Guest
As I went to bed last night I realized that if only God had set the seventh day apart at creation, then we would not be having this discussion. It would end any controversy surrounding what day he wants us to observe.
On another note. Mass is not synonymous with sabbath. They are two different things.
On another note. Mass is not synonymous with sabbath. They are two different things.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
The Mass is the “the breaking of bread” and it was clearly done on the first day of the week as per the writings of the apostle Paul and many others from the early church that record the historical facts. As for Constantine’s law…so what? The Romans were always passing something to do with religion…the civil authorities to this day make laws to suit themselves and what has that to do with us or this discussion?
Your sabbath arguments are useless… It’s right there in Acts 20:7…big as vitam aeternam, and all the other passages you site have zero to do with this issue except insofar as you choose to bash the Catholic Church.
T
twagler
Guest
Church Militant:
Mass is not synonymous with sabbath. Sabbath observation is completely different. If you meet to worship everyday, are you observing the sabbath everyday? That would be impossible because the sabbath was clearly defined by God, at the time of creation, to be the seventh day.
Next, as for the ancient writers. Were they not all from Rome and Alexandria? Hmmmm. Imagine that. Many writers make it clear that Rome was the ONLY place where Christians had ABANDONED the 4th commandment. So the law from Constantine is not significant? How do you figure? Where do you think the saying “When in Rome…” came from? Ambrose, bishop of Milan, gave rise to this saying. When he was in Milan, he observed Saturday, but when he was in Rome…
So after the law was made, people had to observe Sunday as well. Where do you think our two day weekend came from?
And, under the law, you were punished for observing the seventh day sabbath. Did the church step in and say “we don’t agree with this?”
Please do not retort with…“those writers are wrong.” Look it up, cross-reference. I have nothing against the member of the CC, simply the system.
Seriously? Acts 20:7 is ONE verse. How many verses alone are given on the 4th commandment (of Exoxus)? Breaking bread means eating. Just because they met on the first day, does this mean they were observing the sabbath? Give me a break. How many verses in Acts alone make it clear that Paul REGULARLY observed the Jewish sabbath? How many verses in the Bible make it clear that the rest of the Apostles observed the sabbath?
Mass is not synonymous with sabbath. Sabbath observation is completely different. If you meet to worship everyday, are you observing the sabbath everyday? That would be impossible because the sabbath was clearly defined by God, at the time of creation, to be the seventh day.
Next, as for the ancient writers. Were they not all from Rome and Alexandria? Hmmmm. Imagine that. Many writers make it clear that Rome was the ONLY place where Christians had ABANDONED the 4th commandment. So the law from Constantine is not significant? How do you figure? Where do you think the saying “When in Rome…” came from? Ambrose, bishop of Milan, gave rise to this saying. When he was in Milan, he observed Saturday, but when he was in Rome…
So after the law was made, people had to observe Sunday as well. Where do you think our two day weekend came from?
And, under the law, you were punished for observing the seventh day sabbath. Did the church step in and say “we don’t agree with this?”
Please do not retort with…“those writers are wrong.” Look it up, cross-reference. I have nothing against the member of the CC, simply the system.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
No…you must provide the sources…this is your allegation and therefore the burden of proof is upon you…you still haven’t answered my question…why aren’t you honest enough to admit what church you are from?
As for Acts 20:7 may only be one verse, but there are plenty more. What about all these that show that Christians celebrate the resurrection on the first day of the week:
1 Matthew 28 :1 And in the end of the sabbath, when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalen and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.
2 Mark 16 :2 And very early in the morning, the first day of the week, they come to the sepulchre, the sun being now risen.
3 Mark 16 :9 But he rising early the first day of the week, appeared first to Mary Magdalen, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
4 Luke 24 :1 And on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came to the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared.
5 John 20 :1 And on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalen cometh early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre; and she saw the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
6 Acts Of Apostles 20 :7 And on the first day of the week, when we were assembled to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, being to depart on the morrow: and he continued his speech until midnight.
7 1 Corinthians 16:2 On the first day of the week let every one of you put apart with himself, laying up what it shall well please him; that when I come, the collections be not then to be made.
8 John 20 :19 Now when it was late that same day, the first of the week, and the doors were shut, where the disciples were gathered together, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them: Peace be to you.
There’s 8 passages for ya Travis and since Jesus was raised on the first day of the week (Sunday) it sure appears that that is the day that Christians have celebrated for 2,000 years…or are you about to allege that everybody but your church has been wrong for all that time? At first we did meet on both days, but by 110 AD that had changed and you can find that in the writings of St. Ignatius of Antioch who was a close friend and disciple of the apostles St. John and who was the bishop of the church at Antioch and paid the price in blood in Rome for his faith.
Now tell us who you go to church with…admit that you’re SDA…
As for Acts 20:7 may only be one verse, but there are plenty more. What about all these that show that Christians celebrate the resurrection on the first day of the week:
1 Matthew 28 :1 And in the end of the sabbath, when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalen and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.
2 Mark 16 :2 And very early in the morning, the first day of the week, they come to the sepulchre, the sun being now risen.
3 Mark 16 :9 But he rising early the first day of the week, appeared first to Mary Magdalen, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
4 Luke 24 :1 And on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came to the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared.
5 John 20 :1 And on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalen cometh early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre; and she saw the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
6 Acts Of Apostles 20 :7 And on the first day of the week, when we were assembled to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, being to depart on the morrow: and he continued his speech until midnight.
7 1 Corinthians 16:2 On the first day of the week let every one of you put apart with himself, laying up what it shall well please him; that when I come, the collections be not then to be made.
8 John 20 :19 Now when it was late that same day, the first of the week, and the doors were shut, where the disciples were gathered together, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them: Peace be to you.
There’s 8 passages for ya Travis and since Jesus was raised on the first day of the week (Sunday) it sure appears that that is the day that Christians have celebrated for 2,000 years…or are you about to allege that everybody but your church has been wrong for all that time? At first we did meet on both days, but by 110 AD that had changed and you can find that in the writings of St. Ignatius of Antioch who was a close friend and disciple of the apostles St. John and who was the bishop of the church at Antioch and paid the price in blood in Rome for his faith.
Now tell us who you go to church with…admit that you’re SDA…
T
twagler
Guest
I am not SDA. Who said I am affiliated with anyone?
The first five verses you list cannot be considered a celebration of Christ’s resurrection since they did not know he was even risen.
I’ve discussed Acts 20:7 at length. Paul was leaving the next day. Notice that it does not say “on the first day, as his custom was…”
In 1 Corinthians 16:2, the Apostle Paul requested: “On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.” This is no endorsement at all of Sunday worship. Notice that the practice was meant to stop when Paul came to Corinth! And notice that these verses say nothing about gathering for a weekly worship service to do this collection. This was not a collection of money, but of food to assist the poor in Jerusalem, suffering from drought and famine (cf. Romans 15:25-28). Until Paul’s arrival, each individual was asked to “store up” his contributions—surely in his home. Paul knew that the collection would be bulky enough that it would take several people to transport it to Jerusalem (v. 4)—not what one would expect if money were collected.
Next.
In John 20:19, we read that on “…the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst and said to them, ‘Peace be with you.’” This was not a worship meeting celebrating the resurrection; Scripture tells us that until they saw Him, they did not believe that Christ was risen! (Mark 16:14; Luke 24:27-41).
Satisfied?
I have directed you to the place where you can see what these writers said. What more can I do? Of course you don’t trust the website, so get out of your panzer and go check it out.
As for the other thread…I don’t undertand. Roman Catholic? How can you say the church isn’t affiliated with Rome? Kneeling and praying to Mary is not found in the NT.
trav
The first five verses you list cannot be considered a celebration of Christ’s resurrection since they did not know he was even risen.
I’ve discussed Acts 20:7 at length. Paul was leaving the next day. Notice that it does not say “on the first day, as his custom was…”
In 1 Corinthians 16:2, the Apostle Paul requested: “On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.” This is no endorsement at all of Sunday worship. Notice that the practice was meant to stop when Paul came to Corinth! And notice that these verses say nothing about gathering for a weekly worship service to do this collection. This was not a collection of money, but of food to assist the poor in Jerusalem, suffering from drought and famine (cf. Romans 15:25-28). Until Paul’s arrival, each individual was asked to “store up” his contributions—surely in his home. Paul knew that the collection would be bulky enough that it would take several people to transport it to Jerusalem (v. 4)—not what one would expect if money were collected.
Next.
In John 20:19, we read that on “…the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst and said to them, ‘Peace be with you.’” This was not a worship meeting celebrating the resurrection; Scripture tells us that until they saw Him, they did not believe that Christ was risen! (Mark 16:14; Luke 24:27-41).
Satisfied?
I have directed you to the place where you can see what these writers said. What more can I do? Of course you don’t trust the website, so get out of your panzer and go check it out.
As for the other thread…I don’t undertand. Roman Catholic? How can you say the church isn’t affiliated with Rome? Kneeling and praying to Mary is not found in the NT.
trav
T
twagler
Guest
The way I see it the CC ALLEGES that people observed Sunday everywhere in 110 AD. This is not true, only in Rome and Alexandria was this widespread. Socrates attributes this practice (in Rome) to some kind of ancient tradition…Sun worship?
M
Max_Kolbe
Guest
Ok here is some good fire power to knock this SDA off his high horse. If you ever want the SDA to come out of the wordwork, just metion the Sabbath and they can’t ever resist! one of my best friends is SDA, I love her to death but i always let her know how deceptive her sect is! She is use to it by now and we have gone round and round over the years. Anyhow, this material should generate good discussion about this topic. I will break it up into several parts.
WHEN THE COUNSEL OF ACTS 15 CONVENED to determine what Gentile Christians must observe, SABBATH KEEPING IS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT. Peter exhorts the leadership of the Church not to place the Gentiles under the Law:
***Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." ***Acts 15:10-11.The final judgment of the Jerusalem Council contains no reference to Sabbath keeping. Circumcision was discussed and deemed unnecessary (vss. 5-6; 19-20). If Sabbath keeping were to be an essential part of the New Covenant relationship with God it would have been mentioned in the discussion because it would have been an unfamiliar practice to the Gentiles. Sabbath keeping was not even discussed because it is not a requirement for New Covenant believers:
"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials; that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."* (Acts 15:28-29).*
NOTICE that the Holy Spirit told them NOT to lay upon the Gentiles any greater burden than THOSE ESSENTIALS. OBVIOUSLY THE HOLY SPIRIT DID NOT THINK SABBATH KEEPING WAS AN ESSENTIAL THING ANYMORE!
The 7 post-resurrection appearances of Christ show that Jesus purposefully chose the first day of the week to meet with His disciples to encourage and exhort them. The evidence shows that five of these appearances occurred on a Sunday, the first day of the week. We do no have a record of what the actual day on which the other appearances (John 21 and Acts 1:6-10) occurred to His disciples. What we can say with accuracy is this, after Jesus’ resurrection whenever He met with His disciples and the day is identified, it is NOT the Sabbath, it is the first day of the week!
1). To Mary, On the morning of the resurrection - Matthew 28:8-10; Mark 16:9; John 20:11-18
**2). To two disciples going to Emmaus - **Luke 24:13-33; Mark 16:12-13
3). To Simon (Peter) - Luke 24:31-35.
**4). To the eleven disciples on the evening of Resurrection Sunday - **Mark 16:14-18;
Luke 24:36-44; John 20:19-23
5). To the Eleven disciples “Eight days later” - John 20:26-29
WHEN THE COUNSEL OF ACTS 15 CONVENED to determine what Gentile Christians must observe, SABBATH KEEPING IS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT. Peter exhorts the leadership of the Church not to place the Gentiles under the Law:
***Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." ***Acts 15:10-11.The final judgment of the Jerusalem Council contains no reference to Sabbath keeping. Circumcision was discussed and deemed unnecessary (vss. 5-6; 19-20). If Sabbath keeping were to be an essential part of the New Covenant relationship with God it would have been mentioned in the discussion because it would have been an unfamiliar practice to the Gentiles. Sabbath keeping was not even discussed because it is not a requirement for New Covenant believers:
"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials; that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."* (Acts 15:28-29).*
NOTICE that the Holy Spirit told them NOT to lay upon the Gentiles any greater burden than THOSE ESSENTIALS. OBVIOUSLY THE HOLY SPIRIT DID NOT THINK SABBATH KEEPING WAS AN ESSENTIAL THING ANYMORE!
The 7 post-resurrection appearances of Christ show that Jesus purposefully chose the first day of the week to meet with His disciples to encourage and exhort them. The evidence shows that five of these appearances occurred on a Sunday, the first day of the week. We do no have a record of what the actual day on which the other appearances (John 21 and Acts 1:6-10) occurred to His disciples. What we can say with accuracy is this, after Jesus’ resurrection whenever He met with His disciples and the day is identified, it is NOT the Sabbath, it is the first day of the week!
1). To Mary, On the morning of the resurrection - Matthew 28:8-10; Mark 16:9; John 20:11-18
**2). To two disciples going to Emmaus - **Luke 24:13-33; Mark 16:12-13
3). To Simon (Peter) - Luke 24:31-35.
**4). To the eleven disciples on the evening of Resurrection Sunday - **Mark 16:14-18;
Luke 24:36-44; John 20:19-23
5). To the Eleven disciples “Eight days later” - John 20:26-29
M
Max_Kolbe
Guest
**Pentecost happened on the first day of the week! **The Church was born on the first day of the week! That doesn’t make Sunday the Sabbath, it just tells you that after the resurrection of Jesus, the Sabbath is not emphasized.
When a day is mentioned in connection with the appearances of the risen Lord Jesus, it is always the first day of the week. Look at the extremely important events that occurred in the life of the first followers of Christ on the first day of the week.
1). Jesus startled them by appearing to them on the first day (John 20:19).
2). Jesus received worship from Thomas (John 20:27-28).
3). Sunday evening Jesus took bread and blessed it and broke it and gave it to His disciples evidently like He had in instituting the Eucharist meal (Luke 22:19) and their “eyes were opened and they recognized Him” (Luke 24:31).
4). Sunday evening Jesus blessed His disciples twice saying “Peace be with you” (John 20:20; 26).
5). That same Sunday evening Jesus “…breathed on them and said, ‘receive the Holy Spirit’” John 20:22.
6). On Sunday evening Jesus gave His disciples the ecclesiastical authority to proclaim forgiveness to those who believe in Him through the Gospel (John 20:23).
NOTE: Why did the Disciples meet on Sunday?
1). Because it now carried a special symbolic/anti-typical significance for them
2). Even if it didn’t and was by chance, --Jesus still chose to reveal Himself to them only on Sunday, when we know what day it is. That must also hold some kind of Divine significance.
3). Jesus could have chosen to meet with His disciple on the Sabbath. This would have clearly set a New Covenant precedent. He did not chose to do this. The Sabbath was the sign of a fulfilled covenant (see Exodus 31:17 & Hebrews 8:13).
THE NINE “MORAL” COMMANDS OF THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE REITERATED in the New Testament:
1). To worship the Lord God only (1st commandment): no less than 50 times
2). Idolatry (2nd commandment): condemned 12 times
3). Profanity (3rd commandment): condemned 4 times
4). Honoring parents (5th commandment) is taught 6 times
5). Murder (6th commandment) condemned 6 times
6). Adultery (7th commandment) condemned 12 times
7). Theft (8th commandment) condemned 4 times
8). False Witness (9th commandment) condemned 4 times
9). Covetousness (10th commandment) condemned 9 times
Why is it that the duty to keep the Seventh day as Sabbath is not mentioned ONCE in the New Testament?
WHEN THE NEW TESTAMENT LISTS SINS, SABBATH BREAKING IS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT:
In Mark 7:21-22 **13 **sins are listed. Jesus did not mention breaking the Sabbath.
In Romans 1:29-32 **20 **sins are listed and not one of them is Sabbath breaking.
In Galatians 5:19-21 a list of 15 sins are given,
In 2 Timothy 3:1-4 there’s a list of 18 sins, but not once is Sabbath breaking mentioned!
When a day is mentioned in connection with the appearances of the risen Lord Jesus, it is always the first day of the week. Look at the extremely important events that occurred in the life of the first followers of Christ on the first day of the week.
1). Jesus startled them by appearing to them on the first day (John 20:19).
2). Jesus received worship from Thomas (John 20:27-28).
3). Sunday evening Jesus took bread and blessed it and broke it and gave it to His disciples evidently like He had in instituting the Eucharist meal (Luke 22:19) and their “eyes were opened and they recognized Him” (Luke 24:31).
4). Sunday evening Jesus blessed His disciples twice saying “Peace be with you” (John 20:20; 26).
5). That same Sunday evening Jesus “…breathed on them and said, ‘receive the Holy Spirit’” John 20:22.
6). On Sunday evening Jesus gave His disciples the ecclesiastical authority to proclaim forgiveness to those who believe in Him through the Gospel (John 20:23).
NOTE: Why did the Disciples meet on Sunday?
1). Because it now carried a special symbolic/anti-typical significance for them
2). Even if it didn’t and was by chance, --Jesus still chose to reveal Himself to them only on Sunday, when we know what day it is. That must also hold some kind of Divine significance.
3). Jesus could have chosen to meet with His disciple on the Sabbath. This would have clearly set a New Covenant precedent. He did not chose to do this. The Sabbath was the sign of a fulfilled covenant (see Exodus 31:17 & Hebrews 8:13).
THE NINE “MORAL” COMMANDS OF THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE REITERATED in the New Testament:
1). To worship the Lord God only (1st commandment): no less than 50 times
2). Idolatry (2nd commandment): condemned 12 times
3). Profanity (3rd commandment): condemned 4 times
4). Honoring parents (5th commandment) is taught 6 times
5). Murder (6th commandment) condemned 6 times
6). Adultery (7th commandment) condemned 12 times
7). Theft (8th commandment) condemned 4 times
8). False Witness (9th commandment) condemned 4 times
9). Covetousness (10th commandment) condemned 9 times
Why is it that the duty to keep the Seventh day as Sabbath is not mentioned ONCE in the New Testament?
WHEN THE NEW TESTAMENT LISTS SINS, SABBATH BREAKING IS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT:
In Mark 7:21-22 **13 **sins are listed. Jesus did not mention breaking the Sabbath.
In Romans 1:29-32 **20 **sins are listed and not one of them is Sabbath breaking.
In Galatians 5:19-21 a list of 15 sins are given,
In 2 Timothy 3:1-4 there’s a list of 18 sins, but not once is Sabbath breaking mentioned!
M
Max_Kolbe
Guest
**WHY IS IT THAT NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT IS IT TAUGHT THAT THE FOURTH COMMANDMENT MUST BE OBSERVED? **
-Why is it that nowhere in the New Testament is failure to keep the Sabbath day condemned as sin?
-Why is the fourth commandment itself not repeated even ONCE in the New Testament?
-If the Sabbath keeping is so important for a disciple of Christ, why was it not mentioned in His sermon on the Mount or in ANY of His teachings?
-Why didn’t Jesus command Sabbath keeping?
-Why didn’t any of the Apostles command Sabbath keeping?
-Why didn’t the Jerusalem counsel command Sabbath keeping or condemn Sabbath breaking? (Acts 15)
-Why is it that nowhere in the New Testament is failure to keep the Sabbath day condemned as sin?
-Why is the fourth commandment itself not repeated even ONCE in the New Testament?
-If the Sabbath keeping is so important for a disciple of Christ, why was it not mentioned in His sermon on the Mount or in ANY of His teachings?
-Why didn’t Jesus command Sabbath keeping?
-Why didn’t any of the Apostles command Sabbath keeping?
-Why didn’t the Jerusalem counsel command Sabbath keeping or condemn Sabbath breaking? (Acts 15)
Some answer that the Jews already knew about the Sabbath so it was taken for granted that they would continue to keep it, but then why were the other nine commandments reiterated? Would they not be taken for granted as well? It would also seem that with so many Gentiles coming into the Church, that if keeping the Sabbath was so important there would be instruction in the New Testament Epistles somewhere concerning it. There are instructions for them concerning morality, ethics, worship, Church order and family lifestyle. Why would something as important as Sabbath keeping be ignored? Circumcision, which predates the Law and the Sabbath commandment was an issue in the New Testament Church and is addressed repeatedly in the New Testament Epistles and by the Jerusalem Counsel.
**Sabbath keepers argue that it is the example of Jesus that gives us the reason for keeping the Sabbath. **“He kept the Sabbath, so I must keep the Sabbath. Jesus is my example,” they say. Well this kind of reasoning is flawed because it only chooses Jesus’ Sabbath keeping and rejects the rest of His Jewish lifestyle. Jesus also kept Kosher laws. He kept the Passover, Sukkot, Hanukkah, and worshipped in the temple. Are we to follow everything He did?
Galatians 4:4-5 says that Jesus lived under the Law to redeem us from the Law.
"But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons." (NIV)
"But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons." (NIV)
M
Max_Kolbe
Guest
More later but this should do for now…
By the way ask an adventist "which pope Ellen White saw in a vision changing the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday? It’s important to remember she saw clearly “the hand of the pope”…It’s a trick question.
By the way ask an adventist "which pope Ellen White saw in a vision changing the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday? It’s important to remember she saw clearly “the hand of the pope”…It’s a trick question.
T
twagler
Guest
Who compiled the NT? Could this be why the sabbath is mysteriously missing. Moreover, when the Pharisees accused Jesus of breaking the sabbath, what did Jesus say? He didn’t say that the sabbath was no longer binding, but rather that the Pharisees are missing the point.
You are right, Jesus and the Apostles did not command sabbath keeping. But did they keep it themselves? And are we not taught to try and live as Christ did?
You are right, Jesus and the Apostles did not command sabbath keeping. But did they keep it themselves? And are we not taught to try and live as Christ did?
C
Church_Militant
Guest
http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1...prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/laughing.gif
You have GOT to be kidding…Just what do ya think they found when they got to the tomb, a McDonald’s? That’s when they found the empty tomb…
On 1 Corinthians 16:2 you simply inject your own interp on a passage that does not in any way imply that the Sunday meetings were unusual or that they were meant to stop upon St. Paul’s arrival. That’s just wrong…
No…I’m not satisfied.
Just what does this crack mean?
No I won’t waste my time reading through a pile of SDA trash (yeah…trash. I know because I’ve wasted enough time reading it before.) It’s just junk…believe what you please…but don’t come here telling Catholics that you have the truth, 'cos it’s just plain not so…
So you’re a “cafeteria SDA” who picks and chooses what parts you want to believe and rejects the rest. You think you’re right and you don’t even agree with the people you are quoting from on all they say. Yet I do agree with all my church teaches because I know that it’s all the truth. You have nothing to offer us
I’ve wasted enough time on this thread trying to reason with you. See ya…
You have GOT to be kidding…Just what do ya think they found when they got to the tomb, a McDonald’s? That’s when they found the empty tomb…
On 1 Corinthians 16:2 you simply inject your own interp on a passage that does not in any way imply that the Sunday meetings were unusual or that they were meant to stop upon St. Paul’s arrival. That’s just wrong…
No…I’m not satisfied.
Just what does this crack mean?
Gee Travis…the trinity isn’t explicitly taught in the NT either…oh and neither is the incarnation…oh my gosh and neither is the wedding rings that we all wear. I have shown you that there is indeed a NT basis for the Sunday Lord’s Day as well as that the early church met on that day as well. I really don’t care if you agree or not.
No I won’t waste my time reading through a pile of SDA trash (yeah…trash. I know because I’ve wasted enough time reading it before.) It’s just junk…believe what you please…but don’t come here telling Catholics that you have the truth, 'cos it’s just plain not so…
So you’re a “cafeteria SDA” who picks and chooses what parts you want to believe and rejects the rest. You think you’re right and you don’t even agree with the people you are quoting from on all they say. Yet I do agree with all my church teaches because I know that it’s all the truth. You have nothing to offer us
I’ve wasted enough time on this thread trying to reason with you. See ya…
C
Church_Militant
Guest
This is bunk since Ignatius was bishop of Antioch…It’s right there in his letters
T
twagler
Guest
CM,
That is my point exactly. They did not know he was risen. How could it be a celebration of the resurrection?
You won’t even type in www.dictionary.com to find out what a panzer is. How can I expect you to look up writings? And where was Ignatius from? This is my whole point.
Who says you have to belong to any denomination. I believe in the seventh day sabbath because it is a commandment, and because God sanctified (set it apart) it at the time of creation.
If you think about it, “church militant…” means what?
That is my point exactly. They did not know he was risen. How could it be a celebration of the resurrection?
You won’t even type in www.dictionary.com to find out what a panzer is. How can I expect you to look up writings? And where was Ignatius from? This is my whole point.
Who says you have to belong to any denomination. I believe in the seventh day sabbath because it is a commandment, and because God sanctified (set it apart) it at the time of creation.
If you think about it, “church militant…” means what?
T
twagler
Guest
OH yeah, I almost forgot. When you brought up the wedding rings, I almost fell out of my chair. You should seriously go and find what the story is behind the wedding ring. I think you’ll be surprised.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
I won’t be surprised at all…I know. Do you wear one? What difference does it make?..Does it not mean something different today? Something Christian and eternal… love and unity in Our Lord Jesus Christ? If old things never gain new meaning then we cannot accept that the Book of Revelations calls Christ the King of Kings since the OT says that that title was claimed by a pagan king.
I also know what a panzer is…are you implying that I’m a Nazi?
Look up Church Militant on your own Travis. It does have a meaning and I’ve explained it before on here…on a recent thread about screennames no less, but I think you should look it up for yourself because it doesn’t mean what you think it means.
T
twagler
Guest
Church Militant:
So things aren’t always what they seem?Look up Church Militant on your own Travis. It does have a meaning and I’ve explained it before on here…on a recent thread about screennames no less, but I think you should look it up for yourself because it doesn’t mean what you think it means.
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