Sacrament of Matrimony, why make it difficult?

[marianamex]

Are you going to marry here or in Mexico? When is your wedding date? It’s not that the process is going to differ, but, perhaps the priest may have phrased it differently and it may have appeared, to your fiance, like a road block.

The priest asks these questions so that he can, first of all, ascertain the validity of the baptism your future spouse received. If he was not baptized according to the formula recognized by the Church (Trinitarian formula with water), then, heh may either have to be baptized (if he wants to become a Catholic–of course, that would also entail his having to go through RCIA) or you may have to secure a dispensation from the bishop in the diocese where your wedding will take place (whether it is here or in Mexico).

I live in a border town (on the Texas side). Folks will cross over to marry here and vice versa. When you have two different national bishops conferences involved, let alone two different dioceses, there will be some issues that need to be ironed out.

Also, are you going to have the extras during your Nuptial Mass? For those unfamiliar, these are rituals (inculturational adaptaitons) that include the double-rosary and the arras (coins). If you are, you might want to go over that with him so that he can understand their cultural significance.

Also, if your intended is indeed interested in becoming Catholic, why has he not begun teh RCIA process? Had he entered the process early on, he probably would have been received into the Church this Easter. Although, if he can talk to the priest, where you currently attend Mass, maybe arrangements can be made. I don’t know.

What I do know, however, is that right now is not the time to throw in the towel and raise your hands.

We are getting married in Mexico, our wedding is in may. And we´ve just heard so many different things, and so many different answears that I have to accept, I was frustated. It wasn´t what i expected.

I´m sorry, but what´s the RCIA? and he is actually from Texas. And we do have two bishops, and two dioceses… along with too many different opinions on the matter.

U´re the first person from the US to ask me that… and we are, it´s an important tradition. I´ve already explained it to him and he´s already seen it in some mexican weddings, so he´s familiar with it, as well as the offering the bouquet to the Virgin of Guadalupe, which in my case it´s offered to both her and Mater Admirabilis.

He is indeed interested, we just didn´t know about the whole process, otherwise we would have started it before. He was also wanting to be familiarized with it all. We learned about it around august.

Thank you for your answears and your suggestions. If there´s something I´m not is a quitter, neither is he. We aren´t going to throw in the towel, however, we are raising our hands but just to learn more.

 

[puzzleannie]

also forgot to say, it is not required that he become Catholic before you marry, but he must go through the marriage preparation process with you, and be informed of the promises you make as a Catholic, including that to rear your children in the Church. During this process your priest will apply for a dispensation so you can marry a non-Catholic. So even if he decides to enter RCIA (the process through which non-Catholics prepare for and are received into the Church), but is not received before your planned date, it should not delay your wedding.

Your situation is complicated by the fact of two countries, not to mention the difficulties inherent in a long-distance relationship. You bishop and your pastor where you reside has jurisdiction over you, so that is where you will begin, contacting your own pastor.

Believe me bishops and pastors on both sides of the border are experienced with facilitating this type of situation, it happens all the time. See your priest and get started as soon as possible, May is very close, generally no less than 6 months is required simply because of logistics, and because of additional work, may take longer in your case, just because of mail, phones etc.

relax, you can do this.

it is also possible, although obviously not ideal, that you can each attend some of the preparation each in your own location, but at some point you will have to come together with a pastor in either location. also don’t get too hung up on cultural customs that are not part of the actual marriage rite (prescribed words and actions) and choose only those which have meaning for you. You will probably be advised to consider that many of the prospective guests will not be Catholic, and you may want to have only the wedding ceremony, not Mass and communion.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

The short answer: things are “difficult” because marriage has lifelong consequences - which can become eternal consequences if a poorly entered or lived marriage leads to sin - and affects not just the couple but their (future) children as well.

Say you enter a marriage hastily and it results in divorce. You’re still married for the rest of your spouse’s life, which could mean the rest or your life. It’s best to get it right from the start!

Or say you enter an enduring marriage but the religious differences lead the Catholic to fall away from the faith or bias the children against the Catholic faith - better to have hoops before marriage than to have mortal sin afterwards!

 

[marianamex]

also forgot to say, it is not required that he become Catholic before you marry, but he must go through the marriage preparation process with you, and be informed of the promises you make as a Catholic, including that to rear your children in the Church. During this process your priest will apply for a dispensation so you can marry a non-Catholic. So even if he decides to enter RCIA (the process through which non-Catholics prepare for and are received into the Church), but is not received before your planned date, it should not delay your wedding.

Your situation is complicated by the fact of two countries, not to mention the difficulties inherent in a long-distance relationship. You bishop and your pastor where you reside has jurisdiction over you, so that is where you will begin, contacting your own pastor.

Believe me bishops and pastors on both sides of the border are experienced with facilitating this type of situation, it happens all the time. See your priest and get started as soon as possible, May is very close, generally no less than 6 months is required simply because of logistics, and because of additional work, may take longer in your case, just because of mail, phones etc.

relax, you can do this.

it is also possible, although obviously not ideal, that you can each attend some of the preparation each in your own location, but at some point you will have to come together with a pastor in either location. also don’t get too hung up on cultural customs that are not part of the actual marriage rite (prescribed words and actions) and choose only those which have meaning for you. You will probably be advised to consider that many of the prospective guests will not be Catholic, and you may want to have only the wedding ceremony, not Mass and communion.

Thankyou so much for your response! We are attending a marriage preparation weekend. We are doing it in the US because in Mexico there aren´t any ones in english (his spanish is not too good). We are doing all the work… but your words helped. Thank you!

 

[po18guy]

Thankyou so much for your response! We are attending a marriage preparation weekend. We are doing it in the US because in Mexico there aren´t any ones in english (his spanish is not too good). We are doing all the work… but your words helped. Thank you!

Each Diocese is probably different in this regard. At the time of our marriage, I was not even baptized, and had no faith at all. Father interviewed me at length regarding my willingness to follow Catholic teaching and practices before he would agree to marry us. Seven years later I was Catholic. 28 years later we are happier than ever.

Know that, IMO, there are not too many divorces in the US -there are too many marriages. I mean that too many couples are entering the Sacrament with eyes closed to the sacrifices that are necessary to make a marriage work. In the vows, we hear the “better” “health” “richer” and not the “worse”, “sickness” or “poorer”. Since it is very easy to accept the good, perhaps we should place more stress upon the negatives, because they will come at times. The more we are prepared for them, the better chance our marriage has to survive.

Through your active faith and good example, your husband (please God!) will join you in the faith. Mixed-faith marriages are another strain upon the relationship. Have your fiance come to the forums and start poking around. He will learn much here, and realize that the Catholic faith is what he was looking for all along.

I will pray for the two of you.

Christ’s peace and blessings be with you.

 

[anjoh66]

I know very well what you are passing mariana.
I am a born swede raised in a pentecostal family but i never embraced that faith although it gave me some seeds to believe.

I married my wife in Peru and brought her here to europe and decided that i too will become catholic. As religion has always been of very much interrest to me i already had quite some knowledge about the faith and what it means. I have been studying a lot of christian and also muslim religion.

So last easter i decided to take the step and become catholic so we talked to a priest about it and now i have been in contact with him for almost a year.

Sometimes i also feel frustrated as it feels that nothing is happening i was not even recieved as a catechumen yet and the priest just keep on telling me that i must continue go to the mass and so on.

I told him about my feelings that it feels like im stucked why am i not recieved at least as a catechumen so he said because its not so important whether you are a catechumen or not because God knows what is in your heart.

Maybe i will get my status as catechumen at ashes wednesday he said something about that.
But now a year passed and i will not get baptized at easter, it must take at least two years the priest said.

I will not be in RCIA he doesnt see that necessary as i already have the basic knowledge, by which he is impressed he says, so we will just continue meeting and he will prepare me himself.

My problem is that me and my wife are not legaly married in the church only civil in Peru so that means its not accepted by the church so she is now apart from communion until the day i get baptised and we will get this marriage convalidated at the same mass, so it should be in one more year.

that is how he already planned the things.

And we can not have the marriage convalidated before that because i in my youth had a previous marriage and that can only be dissolved according to the Pauline Privilege, which the archdiocese has approved, because our priest sent me there to solve my situation.

But it cant be applied until i get baptized so all we can do now is to wait one more year.

But i have learnt now that the church is never in a hurry

As our priest use to say: God has plenty of time, it is just todays humans who wants to rush the things.

But after all this i know very well how frustrating it can be, as all we want is to get the marriage convalidated so she also can take communion again.

 

[kage_ar]

What denomination my fiance is, I´m not sure, to be honest. I´m not to familiar…

Faith is the most important thing in a Christian’s life. I cannot imagine dating someone and getting serious without knowing what denomination they are, and in depth what they believe. I’d suggest you have that talk.

 

[marianamex]

Faith is the most important thing in a Christian’s life. I cannot imagine dating someone and getting serious without knowing what denomination they are, and in depth what they believe. I’d suggest you have that talk.

I know faith is the most important thing… i know he´s and evangelist, i know he doesn´t practice his religion, but i know where he is with his faith and spiritual believe, and that is really important. but thank you for your suggestion

 

[Junebug999]

hmmmmmmmm…an evangelilst who doesn’t practice his faith…hmmmmmmmmm…

ya know there are some things in this thread that don’t add up…

hmmmmmmmmmmm…some of this is very different, doesn’t add up, i haven’t been able to figure it out even after reading it twice. I think you need to know more about this evangelist person who doesn’t pratice his faith that you don’t know which denomination in…

 

[jblake]

Junebug999;:

hmmmmmmmm…an evangelist who doesn’t practice his faith…hmmmmmmmmm…

Probably is a Post Modern Christianity evangelist. Though the “doesn’t practice his faith” part doesn’t quite fit. They do practice their faith, but not in a manner that others would recognize as such.

Nonetheless, I fully endorse your suggestion that marianamex learn more about his theology, beliefs, dogma, and practices.

Other than it being off topic for Liturgy and Sacraments posting my 1,000 questions your partner should answer before getting engaged here might be appropriate.

jonathon

 

[remjsmom76]

I agree it has to be the that it is being done in another country. I know Mexico is more strict in Catholisim than the U.S. I know many women who have gotten married and either they or their husbands had to conver or converted, but it wasnt nearly as lenghty as what you describe. they went to RCIA got baptized in the Catholic church and got married nearly a year later. GOOD luck and just hang in there! its worth it.

 

[Ragnhild]

I have a grandson wanting to get married to a Mormon and have their wedding in their back yard of the paren’ts home in another state. They think they can get married by a JP and have their marriage blest when they return. Where can I find something in writing put out by the church to help them understand that a wedding has to be in a church, unless a Bishop gives permission. And I understand that one can’t get married by a JP and then by a priest. My grandson doesn’t believe me. And he wants to please his fiance who he is now living with. He feels it is more important to fulfill the bride to be wishes to have her ill father be able to give her away and that would have to be at his home. Thank you

 

[Seatuck]

I have a grandson wanting to get married to a Mormon and have their wedding in their back yard of the paren’ts home in another state. They think they can get married by a JP and have their marriage blest when they return. Where can I find something in writing put out by the church to help them understand that a wedding has to be in a church, unless a Bishop gives permission. And I understand that one can’t get married by a JP and then by a priest. My grandson doesn’t believe me. And he wants to please his fiance who he is now living with. He feels it is more important to fulfill the bride to be wishes to have her ill father be able to give her away and that would have to be at his home. Thank you

I don’t think your grandson will really care one way or the other. He’s living with a woman he’s not married to that’s a pretty good clue what he thinks about church teaching. I’m giving you the link to the canon laws on marriage. He should be talking to his priest about his impending marriage to find out what is required of him. Somehow I doubt he has a parish and a priest , attends Sunday Mass etc. We all should take a moment and pray for him to open his heart to God’s will. He is supposed to go through marriage preparation as is deemed appropriate by his Bishop, he needs a dispensation to marry a non catholic, he needs a dispensation of form to marry outside a Catholic church.

catholicdoors.com/misc/marriage/canonlaw.htm

Could he go and do what he wants to do and fix it later? Probably but that puts him in a sinful situation regarding the marriage. He’s already there though with the living situation. He is not in communion with the church if they are having sexual relations.

Here’s a link to some articles and documents on the Bishops website. Perhaps there is some more info in the Interfaith Marriages document to help you make the case.

foryourmarriage.org/interior_template.asp?id=20398785

 

[kage_ar]

I have a grandson wanting to get married to a Mormon and have their wedding in their back yard of the paren’ts home in another state. They think they can get married by a JP and have their marriage blest when they return. Where can I find something in writing put out by the church to help them understand that a wedding has to be in a church, unless a Bishop gives permission. And I understand that one can’t get married by a JP and then by a priest. My grandson doesn’t believe me. And he wants to please his fiance who he is now living with. He feels it is more important to fulfill the bride to be wishes to have her ill father be able to give her away and that would have to be at his home. Thank you

Catechism of the Catholic Church section on marriage begins here

scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a7.htm#1601

(if she is Mormon, this falls under disparity of cult):

scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a7.htm#1633

1635 According to the law in force in the Latin Church, a mixed marriage needs for liceity the express permission of ecclesiastical authority.137 In case of disparity of cult an express dispensation from this impediment is required for the validity of the marriage.138 This permission or dispensation presupposes that both parties know and do not exclude the essential ends and properties of marriage; and furthermore that the Catholic party confirms the obligations, which have been made known to the non-Catholic party, of preserving his or her own faith and ensuring the baptism and education of the children in the Catholic Church.139

1663 Since marriage establishes the couple in a public state of life in the Church, it is fitting that its celebration be public, in the framework of a liturgical celebration, before the priest (or a witness authorized by the Church), the witnesses, and the assembly of the faithful.

 

[Ragnhild]

Thank you Seatuck for the information. That really is useful. It is difficult to get this generation of young people to follow their faith. I am grateful you have given me the link to get my answers.
Ragnhild

 

[Ragnhild]

I have had Catholics tell me that a Catholic can get married in a park or other location other than a church by a priest and have a valid marriage. There are so many Canon laws that I can’t find where it states where the marriage must take place. I am of the conviction that a Catholic marriage can only take place in a Catholic Church as it is a sacrament. Others tell me I am wrong. Can you give me the answer? Thank you

Ragnhild

 

[lizaanne]

I know faith is the most important thing… i know he´s and evangelist, i know he doesn´t practice his religion, but i know where he is with his faith and spiritual believe, and that is really important. but thank you for your suggestion

Do you mean that he is an Evangelical Christian?

I suspect you are being given an unfair hard time here because your written English needs a bit of work.

You two will be fine I’m sure. It sounds like you are surrounded by people who love you and only want the best for both of you - both in your family and in your Church.

~Liza

 

[Seatuck]

I have had Catholics tell me that a Catholic can get married in a park or other location other than a church by a priest and have a valid marriage. There are so many Canon laws that I can’t find where it states where the marriage must take place. I am of the conviction that a Catholic marriage can only take place in a Catholic Church as it is a sacrament. Others tell me I am wrong. Can you give me the answer? Thank you

Ragnhild

Look in Chapter V The Form of the Celebration of Marriage.

Look in Section VI Mixed Marriages

There are mulitple other Canons which will be violated by the original plan.

You should realize also that unless this young woman has been baptized this marriage will not be a sacrament anyway. What you are probably going for is a valid marriage for your grandson. So that he will be able to return to the the other sacraments of the church.

Take a look at -

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/motu_proprio/documents/hf_p-vi_motu-proprio_19700331_matrimonia-mixta_en.html

 

[Ragnhild]

Thank you for your reply. I pray daily to God to enlighten my grandson. I have to stop giving advice and let God do it. When does a parent, or grandparent stop advising their children to follow God’s way? It seems to fall on deaf ears. Our only desire is for them to fully return to their faith and practice it.

Ragnhild

 

[marianamex]

Do you mean that he is an Evangelical Christian?

I suspect you are being given an unfair hard time here because your written English needs a bit of work.

You two will be fine I’m sure. It sounds like you are surrounded by people who love you and only want the best for both of you - both in your family and in your Church.

~Liza

Thanks Liza! and u are totally right… I know my english needs a bit of work (it sure is better than my fiance´s spanish! lol And doesn´t matter what lenguage, I always have a hard time expressing myself.
We both believe it will all be ok, just steps along the way. I do get frustated sometimes because of it, that is cause it´s what I was brought up with and my believe system, for him it´s a little bit easier cause he understands it´s all about paperwork, time and patience…
And we are blessed to be sorrounded by loving, caring and helpfull people. Everyone always has an opinion too I must say… but luckily support comes to spare sometimes (with an uncles who´s a priest, an aunt who´s a nun, etc)
I´ll get started working on my written english!
Mariana