"Sacramento crowd pulls down, sets fire to Saint Junipero Serra statue, beats it with sledgehammer." Report

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Additional information has the group committing the vandalism numbering 200. The CHP is investigating it as a criminal activity.
From the article:
"Officials say a group of about 200 protesters were marching on Sacramento city streets around 9 p.m. when they moved to the east side of the Capitol near the statue.
Demonstrators then “wrapped heavy-duty tow straps around the statue and pulled it down in an apparent planned act of vandalism,” officials with CHP said.
Officers were able to disperse the crowd and are still investigating the incident.
Anyone with information is encouraged to call CHP’s Capitol Protection Section at 916-341-4740. "
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Freddy said:
If you can’t differentiate between what some Catholics did and Catholicism then there’s not a lot of use continuing this line of discussion.
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Well this is 100% my point. Catholicism says that the forceful conversion of people is a mortal sin.

Each person must convert willingly and choose to do so because they believe in Christ.

Some nominal Catholics (aka the Spanish Crown & military) did bad things.
 
In both cases the native groups - the Native Americans and Aboriginal Australians - are in the wrong. Saint Junipero Serra and Captain Cook were both human beings and should be judged as individual human beings; trying to turn them into avatars of colonialism is just bad history and willful ignorance.
 
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Thorolfr said:
So, are you saying that if someone doesn’t intend to something wrong, but they do, it’s OK?
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Intention is one of the considerations when thinking about whether an action is morally right, but it is not the only consideration.
 
BornInMarch said:
In both cases the natives are in the wrong. Saint Junipero Serra and Captain Cook were both human beings and should be judged as individual human beings; trying to turn them into avatars of colonialism is just bad history and willful ignorance.
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The natives? What the…? This isn’t a Rider Haggard novel. This is 21st century California.
 
Nonsensical? You deny such things happened under paganism? Too many are fixated on now-defunct colonialism and ignore where paganism can go so easily, and still does in much of the world. Ask a Uighur what it’s like to live in a pagan society today. Ask a Tibetan.

One of the problems with liberalism is that its adherents are “playing Indian”; pretending that the horrors Christian civilization eliminated were all just really a game. It’s like pretending paganism is a child in warpaint made of his mother’s lipstick brandishing a rubber hatchet. The reality is cutting hearts out of living people; eating human flesh and imprisoning millions in labor/death camps. The reality is “cultural revolutions” and working barefoot in the Kolyma at 40 below.

And what people on this earth is NOT “Indigenous”? There again, the terminology bespeaks a colonialist mindset in itself; a patronizing mindset the rest of westerners got over long ago. It’s the “little brown brother” view; the “Wogs begin at Calais” way of thinking.

In the end it’s really all just anti-Christian and anti-Western Marxism resurgent under a different phony coloration.
 
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Human sacrifice was practiced all over the North and American continents by natives. It wasn’t exclusive to one area or group.
 
Torture-as-entertainment was also widespread. Primitive paganism is just bad, always and everywhere. Modern paganism differs only in the methods and the numbers.
 
Christianity tamed the barbarism of pagan Rome, pagan Europe, and everywhere else it became predominant. People should appreciate that, not condemn it.
 
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RhodesianSon said:
Christianity tamed the barbarism of pagan Rome, pagan Europe, and everywhere else it became predominant. People should appreciate that, not condemn it.
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But you see, modern totalitarianism prefers the ways of paganism because it lets them invent their own morality; a morality that’s always cruel and inhuman. That’s why it hates Christianity and western culture.
 
Freddy said:
As I said, he may well have been a saint. He may well have been a great man. But it’s what he represented seems to have been the problem.

We have the same situation in Australia. There is a large statue of Captain Cook in the middle of the city. He did a lot of good during his time in Australia. He was a generous man. A sympathetic man. A brave man. A man anyone could look up to. But…

…he was the man that claimed Australia for the British Crown. A land already occupied. But it was classed as Terra Nullius - an empty land. So there for the taking. And after it was taken the original inhabitants have suffered - and are still suffering, to our shame, terribly. The Aborigines in Tasmania were actually wiped out. Every last one killed.

So even though Cook is a man to be admired, in the eyes of Aborigines he represents all that was taken from them. So you pasting info that paints Serra as a good man - even a great man, is missing the point completely.
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These people hate the West. They are seeking to tear everything down; in Britain they sought to destroy a statue of Churchill. In America there are demands to destroy Lincoln’s statues. It is not that these statues are perceived as representing evil, it is that they represent the West. Whilst it may be true that the initial statues being torn down were of those who had really questionable characters, it was never going to stop there because the narrative is painting the West as being irredeemably evil, the author of slavery etc. (which is wholly false). There has been a concerted attempt to undermine our nations going on for decades and this is the latest public display of the growing success of this attempt - an attempt made worse by the abysmal state of history education. There has been a book published on this matter called The Long March of the Institutions of which the e-book is available for free.
I think that whist a sensible discussion could have been had regarding a few of these statues in a sensible situation, this discussion cannot be had anymore for if even an inch is given to these barbarians they will demand a mile until we discover that our history has been obliterated.
This won’t stop at demands for the statues of villains to be torn down, its escalated to the statues of secular heroes being torn down and even to saints. Now, attacks are being made upon certain church congregations - this will get far worse over time. It is natural that churches would ultimately be targeted because Christian thought has provided the foundation of Western civilisation, particularly the reconciliation of Greco-Roman and Christian thought.
The statues ultimately represent the West, the attack on the statues is an attack on the very civilisation that permits these vandals to express their odious views in the first place!
 
harshcshah said:
this will get far worse over time.
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I believe this. And I believe if Biden is elected, it will take a quantum leap forward. Every department of government will be weaponized by the left and individual freedom will die.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Nonsensical?
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Yes, I’m afraid so. Your response to a low key, unremarkable comment about possible grievances that some indigenous people might have for tearing down a statue (and these weren’t rioting kids intent on cheap thrills) resulted in no attempt to address the matter but went immediately on the defensive by being offensive and drawing comparisons with an atrocity at least a couple of centuries ago.
 
And good grief. Some local Indians pulled a statue down and so far (just in the last few posts) we have had paganism, barbarians, torture, human sacrifice, the end of Western Civilisation, cannibalism, Marxism, death camps, totaliarism, inhuman morality, undermining the nation, the failure of education, a leftist attack on Christianity, the obliteration of history, vandals…I might have missed a few more.

Seems honest conversation has left the building. I’ll leave it to you guys.
 
Atrocities by pagans are worse now than they were “a couple of centuries ago”.

Perhaps you think they’re just “playing Indians” but I don’t. This is an attack on Christianity, and one has to be blind not to see it.
 
Natives would reference place of birth . Perhaps we might opt for the word critics and then look again at born in march’s arguement: " Saint Junipero Serra and Captain Cook were both human beings and should be judged as individual human beings; trying to turn them into avatars of colonialism is just bad history and willful ignorance."
 
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