Sacred Oral and Written Tradition

[Pixie_Dust]

Does someone have a specific list of Sacred Oral “traditions” that we can look at?

You’ll need to search the forums to find where you have had this answered myriad times already.

 

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by justasking4
Does someone have a specific list of Sacred Oral “traditions” that we can look at?

Pixie Dust
You’ll need to search the forums to find where you have had this answered myriad times already.

I think not. What i have seen are people’ opinions but nothing offical. Don’t you know off the top of your head what they are?

 

[mercygate]

I think not. What i have seen are people’ opinions but nothing offical. Don’t you know off the top of your head what they are?

Have you not read this thread?

One of our most famous Traditions is the table of contents of the Bible.

 

[justasking4]

Have you not read this thread?

One of our most famous Traditions is the table of contents of the Bible.

How can the table of contents of the Bible be a Tradition?

 

[mercygate]

How can the table of contents of the Bible be a Tradition?

The canon of the Bible is part of Sacred Tradition because the New Testament canon was determined by the Church and the Old Testament canon was ratified by the church.

The table of contents is not part of the sacred and inspired text. The Church determined which of the hundreds of “gospels” and “epistles” floating around in the late 4th Century merited retention as ‘scripture.’ We almost lost Hebrews, 2nd Peter, 2nd & 3rd John, James, Jude & Revelation. Thank God, we did NOT acquire the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Mary, or the Gospel of Peter.

The oldest codex of a complete Christian Bible – which predates the fixing of the canon by about 60 years, included *The Shepherd of Hermas *but left out Revelation.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

I think not. What i have seen are people’ opinions but nothing offical. Don’t you know off the top of your head what they are?

You have been given numerous examples, some of which even you hold to, such as the fact (not opinion) that public revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle. To name all of them would take up more space than this website can handle, and frankly I haven’t got the time. Do your own homework.

 

[guanophore]

Does someone have a specific list of Sacred Oral “traditions” that we can look at?

As I have said before, ja4, it would be best if you start with your NT. When you come to understand that it is 100% the product of Sacred Oral Tradition, you will then be able able to move on to other things.

Apostolic Tradition and ecclesial traditions

’ The Tradition here in question comes from the apostles and hands on what they received from Jesus’ teaching and example and what they learned from the Holy Spirit. The first generation of Christians did not yet have a written New Testament, and the New Testament itself demonstrates the process of living Tradition.

Tradition is to be distinguished from the various theological, disciplinary, liturgical or devotional traditions, born in the local churches over time. These are the particular forms, adapted to different places and times, in which the great Tradition is expressed. In the light of Tradition, these traditions can be retained, modified or even abandoned under the guidance of the Church’s Magisterium."

The living letter of Christ written upon the hearts of the faithful does not lend itself to “list” form.

Not only that, it is spiritual in nature, and cannot be accessed by those of carnal mind.

How can the table of contents of the Bible be a Tradition?

Did you think it just bubbled up out of a spring one day?

 

[RobGentner]

We would all be “reformed” or each man doing what was right in his own eyes, spawning new communities whenever there was a disagreement. You are right about the need to be superior in order to have a sense of validity.

That sounds so “Baptist” !

Off OP. I have two computers I use to access this site. One has a spell checker, and wysiwyg this one doesn’t support that. This is the “newest” computer with windows XP ,the old one has Windows 2000. It just struck me when I went to do a spell check. Hmmm!

 

[RobGentner]

Does someone have a specific list of Sacred Oral “traditions” that we can look at?

Hey JA4T1T, :tiphat: How are you old buddy?

Looking for ammo? That didn’t work in 'Nam neither “Hey, GI you give me bullet?” Sure ~ BANG!!!

Actually I have good news for you, old buddy. I think I can help with your thirst for knowledge. I heard that Rome has a lot of both the church’ s Sacred Oral and Written Tradition in storage. I am guessing here, but they should have a index of what oral tradition they have stored, right? That makes sense doesn’t it? :whacky:
Now the other Catholics should have their own Sacred Oral and Written Tradition Repositories. Some of the Friendlier groups may even have their Sacred Oral and Written Tradition stored together in the RCC repository, at the World Headquarters of The Roman Catholic Church in Rome. We call it the Vatican. Their Mailing Address is: The Apostolic Palace, 00120 Vatican City, Europe. The Vatican’s website: vatican.va/.
I am sure they should be able to provide you a complete list of our Sacred Oral Tradition. If I was you I would have the arrande the list alphabetically rather than date the DSacred Tradition was spoken or declaired Sacred. If what I heard is correct a Monk named Anonymous spoke most of the Oral Tradition. But I may be wrong. The bad news is I don’t think the Monks have completed listing of the Sacred Oral Tradition yet.

At the last Secret Catholic Meeting, someone said they have been busy putting Sacred Written Tradition on the computers. Other Monks are still writing Sacred Written Tradition to be released sometime next century. I think the Monks have enter4ed most Sacred Written Scriptures up to 20 or 30 AD? As you can imaging, there are miles and miles of Sacred Written Tradition and it is being reviewed and put into piles, tradition in one pile, Sacred Tradition in another pile!

Of course the Oral Tradition is the biggest problem! Hopefully, every thing should be completed by 2250AD, if they work through the holidays.

The problem with the Sacred Oral Tradition is once they write it down…Yea,… You guessed it … It becomes “Sacred Written Tradtion!” Then they have to send it over to the Sacred Written Tradition Department. Deleate it from the list of Sacred Oral Tradition and send a form to reduest the list of Sacred Written Tradition be modified. This all takes time. I Heard that the RCC is working on solving that problem. Myself, not being very bright, believe that if we just continue to write down the Sacred Oral Tradition the problem should eliminate itself. But, what do I know? It seems the Church keeps making more. It is so confusing. Ancient Sacred Oral Tradition, Modern Sacred Oral Tradition, Future issue Sacrad Oral Tradition. It is like Bill Gates organzied this project. But I think it started in the 1300 century. If I was you I would ask for a list of all three types of Sacred Oral Traditions! In face, you might even ask for a list of the normal, run of the mill, Oral traditions.

I would think they should be able to send you a complete list of Sacred Oral Tradition in less that 10 years, 15 at the most. Instead of a list of them I would ask for xerox copies of the Sacred Oral Traditions. I may be wrong about this but I believe it might be a blank piece of paper, I mean duhhh … it is “Oral” tradition we are talking about. Unless the Popes make more Sacred Oral Tradition, it will be written down anyway and become Sacred Written Tradition so it doesn’t really matter does it? The Popes have always been slow to do make more Oral Tradition.

I hope this helps you. I have no doubt as to your extreme sincerity in your quest to acquire a list of our Sacred Oral Traditions. As I offered to Reformed (He is greedy he wants copies of all the CC’s Oral and Written Traditions documents. It least you are more realistic:thumbsup: You just want a List of Sacret Oral Tradition.:dancing: ) I might even let you use my Catholic Membership Number if it would help! Just let me know. Have your people call my people. 555- 555-0000 extension 6.

Have a Blessed Day!

 

[RobGentner]

…(Over my head) …

Hi Guan, :tiphat:

You are in a seminary aren’t you? Or a Bishop? or OMG ! Not… Heiliger Vater! :bigyikes: Gott Segnet, Wir werden geehrt, dass Sie auf unserer Seite kamen. Es gibt viele gute Katholiken hier. Der Teufel hat seine Anhänger hier auch, Aber wir setzen den firght fort. Passen Sie auf Sie selbst auf kommen jede Zeit zurück. So, wenn Sie nicht der Papst sind, sollten Sie für die Position nächstes Mal laufen. Gott Segnet, Lässt beten um einander!

The living letter of Christ written upon the hearts of the faithful does not lend itself to “list” form.

I said that in my last post, didn’t I ?

Not only that, it is spiritual in nature, and cannot be accessed by those of carnal mind.

Did you just insult him? Its Ok, you can tell me, I won’t tell anyone! :hug3:

Did you think it just bubbled up out of a spring one day?

Now that I know was an Insult! :clapping:

I can’t wait for his witty response!:yawn:

 

[RobGentner]

You have been given numerous examples, some of which even you hold to, such as the fact (not opinion) that public revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle. To name all of them would take up more space than this website can handle, and frankly I haven’t got the time. Do your own homework.

THAT WAS MEAN!!! :bigyikes: You Go Girl!!!:dancing:

He won’t you know?:ehh: He never does. Did you know his full screen name was : JustAsking4The100thTime? They forced him to shorten it to JA4. Us friends of his can call him T1T. he is famous here. He has gotten away with asking the same 25 questions over and over and over again.:doh2: His posts are so interesting,:coffeeread: I learn so much from him!:yawn: Hint, if you put some of his words on you garden the veggys will grow really large! :extrahappy::

 

[RobGentner]

You are very good at putting scripture verse to writing … it is nice to read what I write is not totally scriptually unsound. I will keep the verses you quoted in text format for future use as they help define my understanding and give it good Biblical support.

Thanks.

Hi nc :tiphat:,

I totally agree, I think he might be the Heiliger Vater!
I think he will drive JA4 to go somewhere else. (He does that a lot jumps in, asks his 25 questions, over and over again, then leaves to come again another day with the same 25 questions still unanswered to his satifaction!) If it wasn’t for the large donations he gives to support the site we would throw him off! (He must pay something, he likes it here so much!)

That is an excellent idea. We charge the protestants to come on the site, say $20 a month? Hey Monitor. did you read that? Ask the bosses!

 

[guanophore]

Hi Guan,

You are in a seminary aren’t you? Or a Bishop? or OMG ! Not… Heiliger Vater! Gott Segnet, Wir werden geehrt, dass Sie auf unserer Seite kamen. Es gibt viele gute Katholiken hier. Der Teufel hat seine Anhänger hier auch, Aber wir setzen den firght fort. Passen Sie auf Sie selbst auf kommen jede Zeit zurück. So, wenn Sie nicht der Papst sind, sollten Sie für die Position nächstes Mal laufen. Gott Segnet, Lässt beten um einander!

It was three years in Seminary that solidified my Catholic faith. It was a Protestant seminary, though so my Greek is better than my Latin, and both are better than my German. No, I am not a bishop and will certainly not be seeking the office of the papacy, but by His grace, I will keep coming back to CAF!

The living letter of Christ written upon the hearts of the faithful does not lend itself to “list” form.

I said that in my last post, didn’t I ?

Yes, but you did it in a much witter manner than I.
"guanophore:

Not only that, it is spiritual in nature, and cannot be accessed by those of carnal mind.

Did you just insult him? Its Ok, you can tell me, I won’t tell anyone!

It was not meant as an insult, but an observation. If you review the posts over the course of the last two years emanating from this username, it will become clear that the thinking is largely secular minded.
"guanophore:

Did you think it just bubbled up out of a spring one day?

Now that I know was an Insult!

Many members of CAF have expressed weariness with the same old questions over and over. A person using this login has previously admitted that the Church was led by the HS to define the canon, an that this was an infallible act. After having admitted this, we now find ourselves back at square one.

I can’t wait for his witty response!

I believe the current user of the login is a “she”, but don’t tell anyone.

 

[ncgolf]

I think not. What i have seen are people’ opinions but nothing offical. Don’t you know off the top of your head what they are?

Look at the Communion of Saints … if you can understand the Communion of Saints you have understood Sacred Tradition. Watch for the canonization of JP II or Mother Theresa … you will see Sacred Tradition in action.

No magesterium, no Sacred Tradition no Communion of Saints, it really is quite simple … no hidden agendas at all.

 

[guanophore]

I think not. What i have seen are people’ opinions but nothing offical.

On the contrary, ja4, if you search the username that you are logging on with, and the words Sacred Tradition, it will be clear that there have been many official documents posted in answer to this persistent question from ja4.

Don’t you know off the top of your head what they are?

I just had to laugh at this. You say you want an official statement, then you ask for something “off the top of your head”.

Does someone have a specific list of Sacred Oral “traditions” that we can look at?

Here is something “official” you can look at:

Sacred Tradition

96 What Christ entrusted to the apostles, they in turn handed on by their preaching and writing, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, to all generations, until Christ returns in glory.

97 “Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture make up a single sacred deposit of the Word of God” (DV 10) in which, as in a mirror, the pilgrim Church contemplates God, the source of all her riches.

98 " (DV 8 § 1).

99 Thanks to its supernatural sense of faith, the People of God as a whole never ceases to welcome, to penetrate more deeply and to live more fully from the gift of divine Revelation.

100 The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him."

As you have been repeatedly told, Sacred Tradition is Christ living in His Church. A lifestyle does not reduce to a “list”. However, if you would like to give it a try, here is a start:

“Justasking4, in her doctrine, life and worship, perpetuates and transmits to every generation all that she herself is, all that she believes”.

Now, please make this into a “list”.

 

[twb1621]

**Originally Posted by justasking4 **

did you have any luck getting the info from the “sola scriptura” thread which is now closed or do you still need it?

 

[guanophore]

Does someone have a specific list of Sacred Oral “traditions” that we can look at?

Sacred Tradition is the living letter of the Spirit, written on the hearts fo the believers:

2 Cor 3:2-3
2 You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all; 3 and you show that **you are a letter of Christ, **prepared by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Sacred Tradition is the glory of God present in the Church

Eph 3:21
21 to him be **glory in the church **and in Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.

Sacred Tradition is the Word of God at work in the Church:

“We also constantly give thanks to God for this, that when you received the word of God that you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word but as what it really is,** God’s word, which is also at work in you believers**.” 1 Thess 2:13-14

Can you turn a living letter written on human hearts into a “list”? I commend your effort!

Let me know how it goes. :coffeeread:

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;4337294]
Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
Don’t you know off the top of your head what they are?

guanophore
I just had to laugh at this. You say you want an official statement, then you ask for something “off the top of your head”.

Your right. I have to laugh to think that someone here off the top of their head would be able to give some of the offical teachings and examples on this…

Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
Does someone have a specific list of Sacred Oral “traditions” that we can look at?
guanophore
Here is something “official” you can look at:

Sacred Tradition

96 What Christ entrusted to the apostles, they in turn handed on by their preaching and writing, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, to all generations, until Christ returns in glory.

97 “Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture make up a single sacred deposit of the Word of God” (DV 10) in which, as in a mirror, the pilgrim Church contemplates God, the source of all her riches.

96 sounded great. 2 different things-- Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture.

98 " (DV 8 § 1).

99 Thanks to its supernatural sense of faith, the People of God as a whole never ceases to welcome, to penetrate more deeply and to live more fully from the gift of divine Revelation.

Can it be said then that the Catholic church in each generation believes differently than the previous one?

100 The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him."

I’m not aware of any Scriptural support for this. When was this first introduced?

As you have been repeatedly told, Sacred Tradition is Christ living in His Church. A lifestyle does not reduce to a “list”.

If i asked a 100 knowledgeable catholics would they all agree on what Sacred Tradition is?

However, if you would like to give it a try, here is a start:

“Justasking4, in her doctrine, life and worship, perpetuates and transmits to every generation all that she herself is, all that she believes”.

How can this be if the church is constantly changing?

Now, please make this into a “list”.

 

[justasking4]

Sacred Tradition is the living letter of the Spirit, written on the hearts fo the believers:

2 Cor 3:2-3
2 You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all; 3 and you show that **you are a letter of Christ, **prepared by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Sacred Tradition is the glory of God present in the Church

Eph 3:21
21 to him be **glory in the church **and in Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.

Sacred Tradition is the Word of God at work in the Church:

“We also constantly give thanks to God for this, that when you received the word of God that you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word but as what it really is,** God’s word, which is also at work in you believers**.” 1 Thess 2:13-14

Can you turn a living letter written on human hearts into a “list”? I commend your effort!

Let me know how it goes. :coffeeread:

No problem. One place would be Colossians 3:8-4:2 is one of a number of places where the “letter i.e. Word” is focused as a list:

8 But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth.
9 Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices,
10 and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him—11 a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.
12 So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience;
13 bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you.
14 Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity.
15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful.
16 Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
17 Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.
18 Wives, be subject to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be embittered against them
.20 Children, be obedient to your parents in all things, for this is well-pleasing to the Lord.
21 Fathers, do not exasperate your children, so that they will not lose heart.
22 Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.
23 Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men,
24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.
25 For he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and that without partiality.
4:1 Masters, grant to your slaves justice and fairness, knowing that you too have a Master in heaven.
2 Devote yourselves to prayer, keeping alert in it with an attitude of thanksgiving;

Hope this helps-----

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Maybe someone can post my question with a Catholic Forum apologist? I’ve studied and read through the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the companion before.

I would recomend The Christian Faith - in the Doctrinal Documents of the Catholic Church

by J. Neuner, S.J and J Dupuis, S.J