"Sacredness of Conscience"? - Could someone explain?

[Lost_Wanderer]

My friend on Facebook shared this image and it seemed to imply that even conscience is supreme over that of ecclesiastical authority. However, I’m actually pretty neutral on this because I feel there’s something missing in this picture:

View attachment 14791

Could someone elaborate?

 

[bzkoss236]

I agree, something seems fishy to me about that image. Unless it actually came from the Vatican website, I would be skeptical about it. Photos can be doctored so easily now-a-days, especially with text.

 

[Marie5890]

It is a legit quote.

On the sacredness of conscience, theologian Ratzinger sums up perfectly the teaching of Vatican II:

Over the pope as the expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority, there still stands one’s own conscience, which must be obeyed before all else, even if necessary against the requirement of ecclesiastical authority. This emphasis on the individual, whose conscience confronts him with a supreme and ultimate tribunal, and one which in the last resort is beyond the claim of extemal social groups, even of the official Church, also establishes a principle: in opposition to increasing totalitarianism." (Joseph Ratzinger, in Ed. Herbert Vorgrimler, Commentary on the Doctrine of Vatican II, vol V, p 134.

 

[JRKH]

An exploration of the topic of conscience in the Catechism might be helpful…HERE

Peace
James

 

[mountee]

An exploration of the topic of conscience in the Catechism might be helpful…HERE

Peace
James

That is very interesting, but I keep having to read it over and over, it is difficult to understand initially. Do you use another site that interprets these laws as you study them? If you I would appreciate knowing what it is.

 

[LJN21]

Looks like photo shop to me.

 

[LJN21]

Yeah, look at the pixels around the littering at the top and bottom how dull and faded they are compared to how bold and crisp the words are in the middle. I don’t think this is real.

 

[wisedom]

It is a legit quote.

On the sacredness of conscience, theologian Ratzinger sums up perfectly the teaching of Vatican II:

Over the pope as the expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority, there still stands one’s own conscience, which must be obeyed before all else, even if necessary against the requirement of ecclesiastical authority. This emphasis on the individual, whose conscience confronts him with a supreme and ultimate tribunal, and one which in the last resort is beyond the claim of extemal social groups, even of the official Church, also establishes a principle: in opposition to increasing totalitarianism." (Joseph Ratzinger, in Ed. Herbert Vorgrimler, Commentary on the Doctrine of Vatican II, vol V, p 134.

indeed this is the rule i had been mentioning in an earlier thread, which empowers the laity to take recourse to their conscience, guided by the HOLY SPIRIT, in cases where doubts exist about the interpretation any teaching as found in the Word

as usual the caucus that exists in every site, contradict for the sake of contradiction…

they quote a particular teaching of the Bible, which is not considered in the context of all the other teachings of Jesus, in order to substantiate their view point…

ty for posting the said “rule”…

 

[wisedom]

It is a legit quote.

On the sacredness of conscience, theologian Ratzinger sums up perfectly the teaching of Vatican II:

Over the pope as the expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority, there still stands one’s own conscience, which must be obeyed before all else, even if necessary against the requirement of ecclesiastical authority. This emphasis on the individual, whose conscience confronts him with a supreme and ultimate tribunal, and one which in the last resort is beyond the claim of extemal social groups, even of the official Church, also establishes a principle: in opposition to increasing totalitarianism." (Joseph Ratzinger, in Ed. Herbert Vorgrimler, Commentary on the Doctrine of Vatican II, vol V, p 134.

apparently it denounces totalitarian of the so-called church, in its requiring complete subservience to it

note: whatever the caucus says, i would stand by my beliefs and apply the above…hope it is not beyond the comprehension of the so-called defenders of the faith, aka caucus, which is present even in the office of the ceo!

 

[wisedom]

My friend on Facebook shared this image and it seemed to imply that even conscience is supreme over that of ecclesiastical authority. However, I’m actually pretty neutral on this because I feel there’s something missing in this picture:

View attachment 14791

Could someone elaborate?

in the last days God will pour out his HOLY SPIRIT on all peoples, notwithstanding that they belong to the despised lower hierarchy, and they will know his TRUTH…no one should call any other mere mortal, father, for God is our Father…FATHER!

I WOULD INVITE ALL OF THE LAITY TO STUDY THE WORD OF GOD WHICH ALONE IS INFALLIBLE!

 

[Bookcat]

Here this will be helpful I imagine: cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=109

(I have not read the whole thing recently --but it is from a very orthodox and good source)

 

[Bookcat]

another article discussing conscience: catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0080.htm

 

[Bookcat]

“Conscience’s reduction to subjective certitude betokens at the same time a retreat from truth.”

–Cardinal Ratzinger (Truth and Conscience 1991)

 

[Bookcat]

“We must free ourselves from the hidden lies with which we deceive ourselves. God sees through them, and when we come before God, we too are forced to recognize them. “But who can discern his errors? Clear me from hidden faults” prays the Psalmist (Ps 19:12 [18:13]). Failure to recognize my guilt, the illusion of my innocence, does not justify me and does not save me, because I am culpable for the numbness of my conscience and my incapacity to recognize the evil in me for what it is.”

–Pope Benedict XVI Encyclical Letter: Spe Salvi

 

[Bookcat]

What is one to do? One needs to seek a “renewal of the mind” as Paul and Pope Benedict XVI puts it: here is something for us all to read: read past the first paragraph all the way to the end: vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html

 

[LJN21]

Thanks Bookcat. I was pretty sure I had seen in the past things about how in order to use supremacy of conscience you had to be operating form a properly formed conscience and incorrect formation did not give you leeway to act wrongly. I was having trouble sourcing it though.

 

[Bookcat]

From above:

“It is our very existence that must become praise of God. But how does this happen? In the second verse we are given the answer: “Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God…” (12: 2). The two decisive words of this verse are “transformed” and “renewal”. We must become new people, transformed into a new mode of existence.”

“Paul makes this process of “recasting” even clearer by saying that we become new if we transform our way of thinking. What has been introduced here with “way of thinking” is the Greek term “nous”. It is a complex word. It may be translated as “spirit”, “sentiments”, “reason”, and precisely, also by “way of thinking”. Thus our reason must become new. This surprises us. We might have expected instead that this would have concerned some attitude: what we should change in our behaviour. But no: renewal must go to the very core. Our way of looking at the world, of understanding reality all our thought must change from its foundations.”

“Paul wants Christians to have a “responsible” and “adult faith”. The words “adult faith” in recent decades have formed a widespread slogan. It is often meant in the sense of the attitude of those who no longer listen to the Church and her Pastors but autonomously choose what they want to believe and not to believe hence a do-it-yourself faith. And it is presented as a “courageous” form of self-expression against the Magisterium of the Church. In fact, however, no courage is needed for this because one may always be certain of public applause. Rather, courage is needed to adhere to the Church’s faith, even if this contradicts the “logic” of the contemporary world. This is the non-conformism of faith which Paul calls an “adult faith”. It is the faith that he desires.”

Pope Benedict XVI

 

[Marie5890]

Yeah, look at the pixels around the littering at the top and bottom how dull and faded they are compared to how bold and crisp the words are in the middle. I don’t think this is real.

It is legit.

Joseph Ratzinger, in Ed. Herbert Vorgrimler, Commentary on the Doctrine of Vatican II, vol V, p 134.

 

[JRKH]

That is very interesting, but I keep having to read it over and over, it is difficult to understand initially. Do you use another site that interprets these laws as you study them? If you I would appreciate knowing what it is.

Actually I do not use another site…Since the Catechism is intended to be a “sure norm” for teaching the faith I’m not at all sure it should require something else to interpret it. At what point does it stop…

That said - I do agree that this section bears very careful reading and fully in context. Given the tricky nature of applying “Conscience” to various issues and situations, it is probably good that we struggle somewhat with it so that we come to a full understanding rather than a partial understanding based on someone the “interpretation” of someone else…some sort of “summary”…

I would suggest to you that there are a number of reference numbers in the section that refer to documents listed at the bottom of the page. It would be a good idea to read these
HERE is a listing of the Abbreviations used in the footnotes and most of these documents are available on-line…

Also I see that Bookcat has offered some links to good sources.

Peace
James

 

[Bookcat]

From above:

“It is our very existence that must become praise of God. But how does this happen? In the second verse we are given the answer: “Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God…” (12: 2). The two decisive words of this verse are “transformed” and “renewal”. We must become new people, transformed into a new mode of existence.”

“Paul makes this process of “recasting” even clearer by saying that we become new if we transform our way of thinking. What has been introduced here with “way of thinking” is the Greek term “nous”. It is a complex word. It may be translated as “spirit”, “sentiments”, “reason”, and precisely, also by “way of thinking”. Thus our reason must become new. This surprises us. We might have expected instead that this would have concerned some attitude: what we should change in our behaviour. But no: renewal must go to the very core. Our way of looking at the world, of understanding reality all our thought must change from its foundations.”

“Paul wants Christians to have a “responsible” and “adult faith”. The words “adult faith” in recent decades have formed a widespread slogan. It is often meant in the sense of the attitude of those who no longer listen to the Church and her Pastors but autonomously choose what they want to believe and not to believe hence a do-it-yourself faith. And it is presented as a “courageous” form of self-expression against the Magisterium of the Church. In fact, however, no courage is needed for this because one may always be certain of public applause. Rather, courage is needed to adhere to the Church’s faith, even if this contradicts the “logic” of the contemporary world. This is the non-conformism of faith which Paul calls an “adult faith”. It is the faith that he desires.”

Pope Benedict XVI