"Sacredness of Conscience"? - Could someone explain?

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wisedom said:
in the last days God will pour out his HOLY SPIRIT on all peoples, notwithstanding that they belong to the despised lower hierarchy, and they will know his TRUTH…no one should call any other mere mortal, father, for God is our Father…FATHER!

I WOULD INVITE ALL OF THE LAITY TO STUDY THE WORD OF GOD WHICH ALONE IS INFALLIBLE!
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Then why are so many Protestant denominations in disagreement with what the Word of God says, if they all have the Holy Spirit in the way you suggest. And your argument also states that for this to be the case, we would need to be living in the end times. What makes you think we are currently living in the end times?

Also, you don’t understand why Sacred Tradition is also infallible. The Bible was written from what was taught by Sacred Tradition under guidance of the Holy Spirit. They both contain the Word of God (which is Jesus by the way, the Bible is God’s words).
 
bzkoss236 said:
Then why are so many Protestant denominations in disagreement with what the Word of God says, if they all have the Holy Spirit in the way you suggest. And your argument also states that for this to be the case, we would need to be living in the end times. What makes you think we are currently living in the end times?

Also, you don’t understand why Sacred Tradition is also infallible. The Bible was written from what was taught by Sacred Tradition under guidance of the Holy Spirit. They both contain the Word of God (which is Jesus by the way, the Bible is God’s words).
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with your limitless knowledge and nil wisdom, how can you say that the limited Holy Spirit is wrong in guiding protestants along different paths to the one GOD?

if you cannot understand how the Spirit works with your limitless knowledge, then you should guide or teach the limited SPIRIT OF GOD!
 
True and False Conscience
I imagine that to non-Christians this must seem rather odd: If moral and religious teachings bind only to the extent that one’s individual mind and will enthuse about them, then pretty clearly the teachings do not bind at all. What “binds” is simply the autonomous self, with all the limitations that our selves are prey to. And to say “I am bound by me” is hardly to make a meaningful moral utterance. Rather, it is to reject the need for morality and creed and to claim that I should be allowed to live as I choose within the constraints imposed by family, friends and society.
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But the twist is that many people who accept moral truths in some area of life reject moral truth especially in areas such as sexual morality, and perhaps also in life issues such as abortion and euthanasia. Moral truth is a great ally when it is on your side; but when it grates against your own convenience it can be tempting to treat it as an anachronism. But either there are or there are not moral truths, and if there are, these will have something to say about unpopular matters as well as more fashionable causes. …
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wisedom said:
in the last days God will pour out his HOLY SPIRIT on all peoples, notwithstanding that they belong to the despised lower hierarchy, and they will know his TRUTH…no one should call any other mere mortal, father, for God is our Father…FATHER!

I WOULD INVITE ALL OF THE LAITY TO STUDY THE WORD OF GOD WHICH ALONE IS INFALLIBLE!
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I agree that all of the laity should study on the word of God. In Fact the Church teaches this. However, since the Word of God (Who is Christ), has granted to His Church the Authority to bind and loose and same is recorded in the word of God (Scripture) it is not entirely accurate to say that the “word of God”, “Alone” is infallible
bzkoss236 said:
Then why are so many Protestant denominations in disagreement with what the Word of God says, if they all have the Holy Spirit in the way you suggest.
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Indeed this is a problem among the people of God…
And your argument also states that for this to be the case, we would need to be living in the end times. What makes you think we are currently living in the end times?
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We have been living in the “end times” for 2000 years now…The Spirit has been poured out since Pentecost…🤷
Also, you don’t understand why Sacred Tradition is also infallible. The Bible was written from what was taught by Sacred Tradition under guidance of the Holy Spirit. They both contain the Word of God (which is Jesus by the way, the Bible is God’s words).
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Not sure I would be declaring what “wisedom” does or does not understand…I hardly think any of us know him/her that well. However, you make a good point in the above. The Bible and Sacred Tradition are not things that are “mutually exclusive”. They need to be seen together…
Here I think of Sacred tradition as being the unbroken continuity of the Church in her teachings…
wisedom said:
with your limitless knowledge and nil wisdom, how can you say that the limited Holy Spirit is wrong in guiding protestants along different paths to the one GOD?

if you cannot understand how the Spirit works with your limitless knowledge, then you should guide or teach the limited SPIRIT OF GOD!
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I’m not even sure what this is trying to say…Has anyone here claimed to have “limitless knowledge”? hhmmmmm…🤷
Anyway - as regards the bolded section…
The Holy Spirit cannot be wrong. so if it is indeed the Holy Spirit that is guiding a person then all will be well.
The Holy Spirit cannot teach contradictory truths. In other words the Holy Spirit cannot teach a “different Gospel”…
So - Where people of faith hold differing and contrary beliefs…one or the other cannot be of the Holy Spirit.
This is where the concept of testing the spirits comes in…Scripture not only prescribes that we do this but it tells us how…it is through “The Church”, the “ekklesia”. There is an excellent instruction given for this in Mt 18:15-18 and a superb example of this instruction in action is related in Act 15.

Peace
James
 
I think all they’re saying is that it’s better not to be a part of the Church at all then lie to yourself-but if you think there’s something objectionable about Church doctrine serious enough to make you leave, you probably haven’t done enough work forming your conscience.
 
Marc_Anthony said:
I think all they’re saying is that it’s better not to be a part of the Church at all then lie to yourself-but if you think there’s something objectionable about Church doctrine serious enough to make you leave, you probably haven’t done enough work forming your conscience.
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👍
 
wisedom said:
as a corollary, “just because one sincerely believes they are wrong does not make it so”? Right?
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i may well add, ‘just because one sincerely believes that the other is wrong, does not make it so?’

or to conclude: “just because you sincerely believe that the other is wrong, does not make it so?”
 
wisedom said:
i may well add, ‘just because one sincerely believes that the other is wrong, does not make it so?’

or to conclude: “just because you sincerely believe that the other is wrong, does not make it so?”
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If a person sincerely believes something is wrong, then it is wrong for that person, even tho it may be ok.

St. Paul mentions this very thing. If someone is offended eating meat sacrificed to pagan gods, then those who eat at the table with that person should also abstain from eating that meat for the sake of that person. So even tho eating pagan sacrificed meat is ok, it is wrong to eat it because the other person’s conscience would be offended.

So conscience rules the day.

Here’s a thought.

If one person’s conscience thinks that something is wrong, and another person thinks that the samething is right, and both christian’s claim to be spirit filled then who is wrong, if the spirit is in both? And how do we know since they both claim the spirit?

What do you think?
 
fred_conty said:
If a person sincerely believes something is wrong, then it is wrong for that person, even tho it may be ok.

St. Paul mentions this very thing. If someone is offended eating meat sacrificed to pagan gods, then those who eat at the table with that person should also abstain from eating that meat for the sake of that person. So even tho eating pagan sacrificed meat is ok, it is wrong to eat it because the other person’s conscience would be offended.

So conscience rules the day.
**
Here’s a thought.

If one person’s conscience thinks that something is wrong, and another person thinks that the samething is right, and both christian’s claim to be spirit filled then who is wrong, if the spirit is in both? And how do we know since they both claim the spirit?

What do you think**?
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Refer to Mt 18:15-18…Where the two (or more) cannot agree then they should “tell it to The Church” and “Listen to The Church”.
To see just such an instance demonstrated, read Acts 15.

Peace
James
 
👍👍
Marie5890 said:
It is a legit quote.

On the sacredness of conscience, theologian Ratzinger sums up perfectly the teaching of Vatican II:

Over the pope as the expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority, there still stands one’s own conscience, which must be obeyed before all else, even if necessary against the requirement of ecclesiastical authority. This emphasis on the individual, whose conscience confronts him with a supreme and ultimate tribunal, and one which in the last resort is beyond the claim of extemal social groups, even of the official Church, also establishes a principle: in opposition to increasing totalitarianism." (Joseph Ratzinger, in Ed. Herbert Vorgrimler, Commentary on the Doctrine of Vatican II, vol V, p 134.
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👍👍
 
fred_conty said:
If a person sincerely believes something is wrong, then it is wrong for that person, even tho it may be ok.

St. Paul mentions this very thing. If someone is offended eating meat sacrificed to pagan gods, then those who eat at the table with that person should also abstain from eating that meat for the sake of that person. So even tho eating pagan sacrificed meat is ok, it is wrong to eat it because the other person’s conscience would be offended.

So conscience rules the day.

Here’s a thought.

If one person’s conscience thinks that something is wrong, and another person thinks that the samething is right, and both christian’s claim to be spirit filled then who is wrong, if the spirit is in both? And how do we know since they both claim the spirit?

What do you think?
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both the prostitutes did claim the living child to be theirs but it is impossible for a child to be born to 2 women! both claimed to be guided by the HOLY SPIRIT, i.e. they were TRUTHFUL…how did you find out in whom the HOLY SPIRIT dwelt, although both claimed the Spirit? OR DID YOU!!! still searching or finding, i guess?..pl. refer Scripture!
 
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