Sacrifice of the Mass/Catholic & Protestant Viewpoints

[Randy_Carson]

I am justified by grace through faith eph 2:8

Amen!

As the Catechism of the Catholic Church says:

[1996](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1996.htm’) Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.46

46 Cf. Jn 1:12-18; 17:3; Rom 8:14-17; 2 Pet 1:3-4.

(I thought you’d appreciate seeing the footnote actually referencing the Bible!)

 

[mercygate]

You keep refering to time and space. I don’t understand the concept of time and space as opposed to no time and no space or whatever the opposite is.

Hmmm. WE exist in time and apace. God encompasses time and space, but is not limited by them. Everything for God is “NOW.” WE have to put up with a reality that goes in sequence: Yesterday, today, tomorrow. The Mass gives us a point in time where the veil of time and space is parted and we enter into the Eternity of God. Because Jesus is God, He and His Sacrifice are eternal. Eternity is not just some kind of endless time. It is not “time” at all.

(Yeah, mercygate! THAT really clears things up! )

 

[misslollipops]

The Mass gives us a point in time where the veil of time and space is parted and we enter into the Eternity of God. Because Jesus is God, He and His Sacrifice are eternal. Eternity is not just some kind of endless time. It is not “time” at all.

)

So when you are at mass you are outside of time and space?
Does your watch stop functioning?

What color is the sky in that world?

 

[Randy_Carson]

So when you are at mass you are outside of time and space?
Does your watch stop functioning?

What color is the sky in that world?

Are you asking these questions seriously?

 

[VociMike]

So when you are at mass you are outside of time and space?
Does your watch stop functioning?

This is another of the snide comments you seem to enjoy, but actually the answer is yes. Our watches no longer reflect the reality which we assume they reflect, and which they normally do reflect.

What color is the sky in that world?

Umm, right…

 

[rr1213]

This is another of the snide comments you seem to enjoy, but actually the answer is yes. Our watches no longer reflect the reality which we assume they reflect, and which they normally do reflect.

Ok. I’m not being snide here. Could you please expound on your statement?

 

[mercygate]

So when you are at mass you are outside of time and space?
Does your watch stop functioning?

What color is the sky in that world?

Yes, lolli – we ARE outside of time and space. We hold Eternity in our hands; we become one with the One.

What’s with the sarcasm? What does it do for you? It is becoming clear that your problems with Catholicism have nothing whatever to do with the faith as it IS. I don’t know what your gripe is, but you are making hay out of something OTHER than the Catholic faith while labeling it “Catholicism.”

 

[mercygate]

Ok. I’m not being snide here. Could you please expound on your statement?

As a former Episcopalian, I think you “get” this. The Bread we “see” is not bread but the Body of Christ. The time on our watch is the time we tick off in seconds, minutes and hours but the Real Time is the Eternity of Christ with Whom we are united by his Body and Blood.

 

[VociMike]

Ok. I’m not being snide here. Could you please expound on your statement?

Watches are like people without faith. They can only comprehend (and a watch by its very actions of marking time “comprehends” in its own fashion) the material world. A watch, like a person without faith, can only know what is revealed by the flesh - that is, by material means. But at Mass there is a reality which cannot be comprehended by the flesh. It can only be comprehended by those who have faith, not by watches or those who do not have faith. In comprehending what happens in the Mass the flesh profits nothing, and that includes watches.

 

[rr1213]

Ok, I misunderstood the post. I thought you meant something like one’s watch stops or runs backward or something likewise absurd during Mass. Since I hadn’t seen THAT happening…

 

[mercygate]

Ok, I misunderstood the post. I thought you meant something like one’s watch stops or runs backward or something likewise absurd during Mass. Since I hadn’t seen THAT happening…

And I would be REALLY scared if I ever saw that myself!

 

[VociMike]

Ok, I misunderstood the post. I thought you meant something like one’s watch stops or runs backward or something likewise absurd during Mass. Since I hadn’t seen THAT happening…

In that case, your request for elaboration was quite restrained.

 

[richardwy]

One of the things that attracted me to the Catholic Church was the Magisterium admitting certain things are “a mystery.” The Eucharist is an example, aspects of it.

If you’re getting a kick making fun of the Catholics, then do your rounds and have done with it.

If on the other hand, that is not the case, read Pope JPII’s letter on the Eucharist. You can google it.

And maybe this little bit from me will help if you are sincere.

God knew us before we were in our Mother’s womb. The power of God’s omniscence trumps “time.”

The blood of Christ washes away sin. It’s power also trumps time. Be it the sins of the repentant back then through today and tomorrow.

Ephesians, where Paul lays out the mystery that was hid in God from the ages, trumps time too.

It may have gone “bling; here I am” in time (along with the star, the Magi, and other holy acts that took place roughly 2000 years ago), but it mysteriously IS throughout what we try to refer to as time. Or throughout all time. Even when the noun “time” doesn’t full account for it.

Gosh, look at Genesis. We have God creating during a solar day prior to the lights in the heavens being created. Get it?

This got hold of me in 2 ways. 1 when I read John Paul II’s letter vatican.va/holy_father/special_features/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_20030417_ecclesia_eucharistia_en.html

My reaction to the Holy Father’s letter was, “yeah, yeah, yeah, WHAT?” I recall saying aloud, “can this be?” Revelation, reason, and mystery all rolled into one.

And 2ndly, when early on my journey towards the Church, I was praying, “Glory be to the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit as it was from the beginning, is now, and evermore shall be.”

 

[Miserissima]

So when you are at mass you are outside of time and space?
Does your watch stop functioning?

What color is the sky in that world?

Look: we have been sympathetic to your lack of understanding of Catholicism, since you claim that you were poorly catechised as you were growing up.

However…it has been explained elsewhere that Catholics believe the Eucharist is “the Body and Blood, together with the Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and therefore the whole Christ, is truly, really and substantially contained in the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.”

The question wasn’t simply, “What do you believe?” It was about “mass and possible misunderstandings” about the Mass. You’re once again taking attention away from the topic and putting it onto yourself.

Not every thread in which you participate is about you, your relationship with Christ, or how you are justified by faith alone. You are undoubtedly one of the most self-centered alleged Christ-followers I have ever met. And the shame of it is that you say you’re doing it for Christ.

Additionally, there is no excuse for being being uncharitable and unkind – and definately not demonstrating the “fruits of the Spirit.”

Now, you have crossed a line not only where you have mocked the bride of Christ (His Church), but you have mocked Jesus Christ Himself in the Eucharist – the source and summit of *our *faith. That is what we believe, as you, however, may not. Please support your positions with scripture, commentary, and an understanding of the development of your faith (as others have done on this thread). Stop making it about you and let’s get back to the topic(s) at hand.