Sad States of America

[Zooey]

Australians seem to be remarkably ignorant of our history and the events of history that make us what we are. Our nation was born of oppression and abuse by the British Crown. Armed patriots secured our independence after years of bloody war. The Brits tried it again in 1812 and were again trounced by armed patriots. These wars were fought by armed citizens and by citizen-soldiers, armed by the God-given rights in the Constitution.

Exactly!
After being pushed to the limit, again & again, we took up arms against the British invaders & secured our liberty. No one who does not have a full knowledge & understanding of the USA can ever possibly understand what it meant for us to be free!!
Australia’s connection to England seems to have been more benevolent. It was not so here.
After all these 200+ years, I still take pride in the fact that, in **my **country, there is no bowing & scraping to the whims of a monarch. Indeed, it is, strictly speaking, bad form to acknowledge a monarch at all. Yes, yes, I know that people do it… “Your majesty this”, “your highness that”.I am not one of those people. We have, by the grace of Almighty God, no king or queen to bow down to…except for the King of Kings and His Lady Mother.
That took guns, and so I say, “Thank God for them”. I would not, for any money, live in a country where I was forced to bow my knee to those who fancy themselves “noble”.Better, by far, to have died fighting for freedom, than to live as a traitor to liberty, & a slave to royals.
God bless the USA, and all who fought & died to make us free. So may we always stand.

 

[hosemonkey]

Exactly!
After being pushed to the limit, again & again, we took up arms against the British invaders & secured our liberty. No one who does not have a full knowledge & understanding of the USA can ever possibly understand what it meant for us to be free!!
Australia’s connection to England seems to have been more benevolent. It was not so here.
After all these 200+ years, I still take pride in the fact that, in **my **country, there is no bowing & scraping to the whims of a monarch. Indeed, it is, strictly speaking, bad form to acknowledge a monarch at all. Yes, yes, I know that people do it… “Your majesty this”, “your highness that”.I am not one of those people. We have, by the grace of Almighty God, no king or queen to bow down to…except for the King of Kings and His Lady Mother.
That took guns, and so I say, “Thank God for them”. I would not, for any money, live in a country where I was forced to bow my knee to those who fancy themselves “noble”.Better, by far, to have died fighting for freedom, than to live as a traitor to liberty, & a slave to royals.
God bless the USA, and all who fought & died to make us free. So may we always stand.

Amen! Australia’s relationship with the Crown has not always been benevolent. Have Australians forgotten that Australia was merely a dumping-ground for the rejects of British society, the inmates of overflowing British jails, prison hulks and workhouses? A society where a man could be transported for life for stealing a loaf of bread? Conditions in early Australia were horrific, and I suppose that if most of the inhabitants of Australia in those days had been armed, as were our people, they would have thrown the Brits out too. Americans just would not have put up with it.

 

[Zooey]

Amen! Australia’s relationship with the Crown has not always been benevolent. Have Australians forgotten that Australia was merely a dumping-ground for the rejects of British society, the inmates of overflowing British jails, prison hulks and workhouses? A society where a man could be transported for life for stealing a loaf of bread? Conditions in early Australia were horrific, and I suppose that if most of the inhabitants of Australia in those days had been armed, as were our people, they would have thrown the Brits out too. Americans just would not have put up with it.

This is why I Bestsmileys.com understand why so many Australians seem not to “get it”.
You are so right. We would not have put up with it. We did not put up with it!
There seems to have beenhttp://bestsmileys.com/sad/6.gif no Australian version of Geo. Washington, the Adams cousins; no Thomas Jefferson, nor a Patrick Henry: “Give me liberty, or give me death!”…No Daniel Morgan nor Joseph Warren.
We are:thumbsup: richly blessed in our forefathers; a more amazing group of men can scarcely be imagined! May each and every one of them, this Memorial Day weekend, rest in the peace of Christ.:byzsoc:

 

[LilyM]

This is why I Bestsmileys.com understand why so many Australians seem not to “get it”.
You are so right. We would not have put up with it. We did not put up with it!
There seems to have beenhttp://bestsmileys.com/sad/6.gif no Australian version of Geo. Washington, the Adams cousins; no Thomas Jefferson, nor a Patrick Henry: “Give me liberty, or give me death!”…No Daniel Morgan nor Joseph Warren.
We are:thumbsup: richly blessed in our forefathers; a more amazing group of men can scarcely be imagined! May each and every one of them, this Memorial Day weekend, rest in the peace of Christ.:byzsoc:

I have to take exception here - yes, early conditions were bad. So were they in a heck of a lot of freely-settled colonies too - Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, India anyone? None of those were prison colonies.

Not to mention that we’ve had our moments of sticking it up the Brits - we got Governor William Bligh’s sorry butt kicked back to England for one (the same Bligh of Mutiny on the Bounty fame)

And whose country is better off today? Fairly well tied from what I can see. I do respect those who are willing to fight for freedom, Miz Zooey and Missah hosemonkey, but if it can be achieved by the pen (or even the undisputed sporting superiority that we have) rather than the sword that’s a better thing.

Not to mention that my ancestors came here to get AWAY from civil wars, not provoke more! Maybe it’s because being SOOOOOOO much further away from Britain we actually did have a greater amount of independence from a practical perspective.

And we’ve certainly stood up for ourselves when need be - Churchill wanted to divert some Australian military forces in WW2, at a time when our own city of Darwin was being attacked, and our PM defied him and called them back to Oz (God bless John Curtin!) So we’re not scared of anyone and never have been!

 

[levi86]

Australians seem to be remarkably ignorant of our history and the events of history that make us what we are. Our nation was born of oppression and abuse by the British Crown. Armed patriots secured our independence after years of bloody war. The Brits tried it again in 1812 and were again trounced by armed patriots. These wars were fought by armed citizens and by citizen-soldiers, armed by the God-given rights in the Constitution.

“Oppression and abuse”??? Since when does being taxed too much constitute “oppression and abuse”? and since when does over taxation justify the use of violence?

 

[hosemonkey]

“Oppression and abuse”??? Since when does being taxed too much constitute “oppression and abuse”? and since when does over taxation justify the use of violence?

Ever hear of the “Boston Massacre?” Unfair taxation was just the beginning, British troops quartered in private houses, confiscation of property. Read the Declaration of Independence. Violence is justified when no other redress of grievances is possible. The Crown responded to complaints with more oppression. Check this link.law.indiana.edu/uslawdocs/declaration.html

 

[levi86]

Ever hear of the “Boston Massacre?” ]

I believe so.

I small detachment of British soldiers was attacked by a massive crowd of rioters. After an officer was knocked to the ground they fired a single volley at the crowd. More an act of self defence than a massacre.

 

[hosemonkey]

I believe so.

I small detachment of British soldiers was attacked by a massive crowd of rioters. After an officer was knocked to the ground they fired a single volley at the crowd. More an act of self defence than a massacre.

The soldiers panicked and fired into the crowd. Merely one in a long series of usurpations.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Yes, yes, just a minor kerfluffle.

Ever hear of the straw that broke the camel’s back?

 

[hosemonkey]

I believe so.

I small detachment of British soldiers was attacked by a massive crowd of rioters. After an officer was knocked to the ground they fired a single volley at the crowd. More an act of self defence than a massacre.

Here’s some Patrick Henry for ya. His speech says it all. We Americans could stand to read it again.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death

March 23, 1775
By Patrick Henry

No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the house. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The question before the house is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at the truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.

Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the numbers of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.

I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House. Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received?

Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with those warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlement assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us: they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne! In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation.

 

[hosemonkey]

Con’td

There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free–if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending–if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained–we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us! They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength but irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

It is in vain, sir, to extentuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace–but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

Amen! I take his words as my own.

 

[Zooey]

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

May the soul of Patrick Henry, and the souls of
all those brave men (and no few women) who fought for our freedom, rest in peace. God bless them all…
“And there were giants in the earth in those days…Those were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown…”

 

[Zooey]

“Oppression and abuse”??? Since when does being taxed too much constitute “oppression and abuse”? and since when does over taxation justify the use of violence?

Ye dinnae know your American history, laddie. All ye’ have heard is the lies the bluidy Redcoats told ye, to save their guid reputations.
The violence was against us, laddie; we were attacked & brutalized by the most powerful army in the world. And a wee group of farmers, trappers, & their cousins from the cities & the towns-- beat them!! We drove out their bully boys, whimpering & running,with their tails tucked between their legs.

I believe so.

I small detachment of British soldiers was attacked by a massive crowd of rioters. After an officer was knocked to the ground they fired a single volley at the crowd. More an act of self defence than a massacre.

Au contraire!! A group of Americans were fired upon by British soldiers, with no provocation of any kind whatsoever.
Those same soldiers then entered the church nearby, where the Massachusetts Assembly had been wont to meet (until the Brits forbade it), and they smashed it to smithereens, & then they brought in their horses and encouraged them to defecate on the remains of a place of Christian worship.
There was no riot on our side, yean; it was the Redcoats rioting, and it was far from the first time. The British army took great pleasure in this sort of “self-defence”. They also took thought it good sport to beat children with their weapons, to kidnap & rape the women & girls, and to arrest, beat, & torture any man they fancied, just because they could.
Did ye read **that **in your British history books,laddie?? I warrant not!! They were bully boys then, and they are liars still.
“Before I’d be a slave, I’d be buried in my grave; and go home to my Lord, and be free”.

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!
I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! :knight1: :knight2:

 

[levi86]

Au contraire!! A group of Americans were fired upon by British soldiers, with no provocation of any kind whatsoever.

There was no riot on our side, yean; it was the Redcoats rioting, and it was far from the first time.

Are you for real?

Have you ever read an unbiased account of the events? There isn’t a single history book out there that would support what you’ve just said.

Sure, be patriotic, but have the common sense to base that patriotism on facts rather than propaganda.