Saddam was not threatening his neighbours

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Matt25

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The Sunday Times has published a secret UK government memo from July 2002 which shows that war had already been decided upon and the UN route was just a cynical attempt to get legal cover.

Most illuminating was this assessment from the Foreign Secretary Jack Straw timesonline.co.uk/article/0,2087-1593607,00.html
The Foreign Secretary said he would discuss this with Colin Powell this week. It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin.** Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran. **We should work up a plan for an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in the UN weapons inspectors. This would also help with the legal justification for the use of force.
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Matt25:
The Sunday Times has published a secret UK government memo from July 2002 which shows that war had already been decided upon and the UN route was just a cynical attempt to get legal cover.
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Just as long as the US was willing to fly hundreds of sorties a week, Saddam was not threatening his neighbors, you mean. At the same time France and Russia were trying their best to get the sorties to stop. Then what? Would Saddam all of a sudden start spending his billions on his people instead of massing an army to concur his neighbors like he did in the past?

Sorry, I simply don’t buy it.

Anyway, you really need to stop reliving 2002
 
The first time was a classic fake. Not content with using the invasion of Kuwait, we pushed “the Republican Guard is gathering on the border of Saudi Arabia” threat. And what do you know, the media discovers it to be a total fake AFTER the war begins.

You’ve got to admit; we have one corrupt and unaccountable government on our hands.
 
I don’t remember him threatening the Saudis much, other than launching a missle or 2 during the first war.

And, we’re talking about the 2nd war.
 
Oh wait, one at a time…

"Before launching the Gulf War, Bush Sr. claimed that an Iraqi juggernaut was threatening to roll into Saudi Arabia. Citing top-secret satellite images, Pentagon officials estimated in mid–September that up to 250,000 Iraqi troops and 1,500 tanks stood on the border, threatening the key US oil supplier.
Code: 
 The *St. Petersburg Times* acquired two commercial Soviet satellite images of the same area, taken at the same time, and found no Iraqi troops were visible near the Saudi border — just empty desert.

 After the war, Gen. Colin Powell admitted that there had been no massive build up. A US senior commander told *Newsday* after the war, "There was a great disinformation campaign surrounding this war."
 
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mjdonnelly:
I don’t remember him threatening the Saudis much, other than launching a missle or 2 during the first war.

And, we’re talking about the 2nd war.
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Saddam’s goal was to create a Arabian Caliphate with him as Sultan. His model was Saladin (a Kurd). Although he his actions may have actually been closer to Zengi of Mosul. In any case, no state next to Iraq was safe from his ambitions.
 
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Thekla:
Oh wait, one at a time…

"Before launching the Gulf War, Bush Sr. claimed that an Iraqi juggernaut was threatening to roll into Saudi Arabia. Citing top-secret satellite images, Pentagon officials estimated in mid–September that up to 250,000 Iraqi troops and 1,500 tanks stood on the border, threatening the key US oil supplier.
Code: 
 The *St. Petersburg Times* acquired two commercial Soviet satellite images of the same area, taken at the same time, and found no Iraqi troops were visible near the Saudi border — just empty desert.

 After the war, Gen. Colin Powell admitted that there had been no massive build up. A US senior commander told *Newsday* after the war, "There was a great disinformation campaign surrounding this war."
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Did they look on the Saudi / Kuwait border? I think the current estimate is that Saddam had 300,000 troops in the Kuwait theater of operations.

“Iraqi forces in the KTO posed a serious threat to Saudi Arabia and the other Persian Gulf states; until they either evacuated Kuwait, were ejected, or destroyed, Kuwait could not be liberated.”
Report to Congress on the Conduct of the Persian Gulf War
 
Oh I forgot, Sadam is a good guy, we are evil. My bad, I had better send him my daughter in repentance.

Her is a tip, get over it. What is done is done. What needs to be done needs to be done. Man up and help get the job done, or just bite your tounge untill the lives of your brothers are not jeprodized every time you spill your vile aginst them. And no I’m not going to by the “I support the troops but not the war” bull-hockey. that’s like saying " I support the Packers, but they have no buisness playing football."
 
Fake “babies thrown from incubators” story…

"Before the motion for war, members of Congress were presented with the tearful testimony of a 15-year-old Kuwaiti girl, known only as Nayirah. She described how, as a volunteer in a Kuwait maternity ward, she had seen Iraqi troops storm her hospital, steal the incubators, and leave 312 babies “on the cold floor to die.” Seven US Senators later referred to the story during debate; the motion for war passed by just five votes. In the weeks after Nayirah spoke, President Bush senior invoked the incident five times, saying that such “ghastly atrocities” were like “Hitler revisited.”
Nayirah was actually the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to Washington and had no connection to the Kuwait hospital. She had been coached — along with the handful of others who would "corroborate" the story — by senior executives of Hill and Knowlton in Washington, which had a contract worth more than $10 million with the Kuwaitis to make the case for war."
 
Thekla,

Saddam’s killing fields are not fake. The mass graves are not fake, the fact he invaded Kuwait is not fake. The fact that many Kuwait men disappeared after the invasion is not fake. Want me to go on?
 
gilliam,

Two different things can be true at the same time; one does not negate the other. A) Hussein was a vicious dictator B) Our government has lied to the citizenry for war more than once.

When citizens give up their obligation to hold their government accountable, they get more lies and create dictators.

Thekla
 
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Thekla:
gilliam,

Two different things can be true at the same time; one does not negate the other. A) Hussein was a vicious dictator B) Our government has lied to the citizenry for war more than once.

When citizens give up their obligation to hold their government accountable, they get dictators and lies.

Thekla
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I am pretty sure the Gulf War was to protect the Gulf states from being taken over by Saddam. Kwait already was and he had aims on other weak states. Saudi Arabia, before we got there, really didn’t have a defense. Again, Saddam wanted to take over Arabia and was willing to do it one country at a time. Just when he would invade Saudi Arabia was completely up to the United States. If we didn’t stop him, it would have been sooner rather than later.

People: We keep making the mistake of not believing these guys when they tell us what they intend on doing.
 
Oh…I see the conspiracy theory nuts are active today…:rolleyes:
 
and being lied to by their government. I’m not. When the government tells us that we must go to war NOW because 1) troops are amassing on the Saudi border or 2) babies are being thrown from incubators, it’s being done to gin up support. Both items were false and both items were known by the government to be false at the time.

I’m simply repeating part of the rationale that was given to the American people; not why you thought we were going to war.
 
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gilliam:
Just as long as the US was willing to fly hundreds of sorties a week, Saddam was not threatening his neighbors, you mean. At the same time France and Russia were trying their best to get the sorties to stop. Then what? Would Saddam all of a sudden start spending his billions on his people instead of massing an army to concur his neighbors like he did in the past?

Sorry, I simply don’t buy it.

Anyway, you really need to stop reliving 2002
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Since you’re being so rude: You’re a total hypocrite. You spend all day long copying and pasting news stories that support the war in Iraq and then completely belittle anyone who disagrees with you. Now that someone posted one of their opinions, you got the guts to say: “You really need to stop reliving 2002”? Get a life!
 
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rjfern0407:
Since you’re being so rude: You’re a total hypocrite. You spend all day long copying and pasting news stories that support the war in Iraq and then completely belittle anyone who disagrees with you. Now that someone posted one of their opinions, you got the guts to say: “You really need to stop reliving 2002”? Get a life!
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Key point, they post opinions, gilliam posts facts.
Thanks for bringing that up.
 
The facts show that pretty much *all *of the intelligence on Iraq was wrong. 'Nuff said.

Peace.
 
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