Saddened by a website

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…Catholics worship Mary…
My experience is most that claim this do not separate worship and prayer in the way Catholics do.

It is important to realise and qualify this if you are to make good apologetics.

If you do not qualify this you will go round and round in circles and they will leave the conversation unchanged.

I dont know why protestants dont get and read the Catechism it is easier to shoot holes in the idea of praying to Mary (bbhn) with the bible than to false accuse Catholics of false worship.
 
;5694075:
These sad little people, hide behind a computer screen and post anger and hatred. They are not Christians in any sense of the word. A Christian either Catholic or non-Catholic would not behave that way.
We should focus on actions of people rather than judging them.

aslo better to say “A Christian either Catholic or non-Catholic should not behave that way”

My experience of Christians is that they can still sin.

If you have never sinned then you will be fine, but sin is sin in the Law.

If you have sinned on may argue by your words you are not a Christian.

Bless ya pray well and stay well
 
My experience is most that claim this do not separate worship and prayer in the way Catholics do.
In my experience the reason is because most protestants don’t understand the difference between veneration and worship. Probably because a lot of denominations simply venerate God, rather than worshiping him.
 
Well it took all of about 15 seconds on that site to realize someone obviously has addressed the issue of veneration versus adoration with him, but he dismisses it out of hand as some kind of Satanic mind control thing. He even goes so far as to grant the validity of the practice in theory, but then condemns it anyway on the grounds that there is bowing involved.

So what we have here is a Scripture-slicer. Cut the Bible into little tiny parts and formulate a doctrine on each part, then condemn everyone around you who doesn’t agree with your disjointed misunderstanding. Exodus 20:5 has to exist independent of Exodus 20:4, making bowing alone a sin. A new doctrine: Sola Inflectio (Bowing Alone).

There’s an anti-Christ behind every tree. I think I hear Twilight Zone music. :eek:
 
The real irony is that many people who come up against such incredibly inaccurate and offensive sites aimed AT them, and feel betrayed and insulted as a result, are quite willing to engage in exactly the same sort of thing against someone they dislike or disagree with.
Have you seen that on CAF? If so, how has LDS been misrepresented?

(Your chance to give the facts. :))
 
I’m only 15 and just a beginner Catholic, and I wasn’t aware of ALL the misinterpretation of Catholocism by other branches of Christianity. But now I have some idea. I found a website called jesus-is-savior.com, which devoted a lot of time to terrible misinterpretation through words, pictures, etc. Of Roman Catholocism. It shocked me. Naively, I hadn’t thought of what wrong things others might be reading about the faith. The website claimed that Catholics worship Mary, Catholics are heretics, the rosary is from the devil, etc. The whole thing has made me extremely sad. Have you seen this website personally, or had a similar experience of shock that I’ve had? How can anyone believe those things against the church?
I looked at the website. The first thing I clicked on should tell all that the owners of the site are insane. 9/11 conspiracy theory. :rolleyes:
 
I’m only 15 and just a beginner Catholic, and I wasn’t aware of ALL the misinterpretation of Catholocism by other branches of Christianity. But now I have some idea. I found a website called jesus-is-savior.com, which devoted a lot of time to terrible misinterpretation through words, pictures, etc. Of Roman Catholocism. It shocked me. Naively, I hadn’t thought of what wrong things others might be reading about the faith. The website claimed that Catholics worship Mary, Catholics are heretics, the rosary is from the devil, etc. The whole thing has made me extremely sad. Have you seen this website personally, or had a similar experience of shock that I’ve had? How can anyone believe those things against the church?
That particular website is just chocked-full of MISinformation. Nor do I believe it is simply well-motivated but ignorant. As this point in your life, I would just avoid it. I have two teenage sons, ages 14 & 17, and i advise them to read more “official” articles and websites. They need a firm grounding in Catholic teaching before they start browsing what others think.
 
Better we focus on the acts of a person rather than judging them, least we be judged.
:ehh:

This is a ‘by their fruits’ thing.

I have never yet seen an anti website (no matter who that site is attacking) that was not including false and defamatory information about the target belief deliberately and with malice. They know that the information they are putting in there is wrong; you can be sure that they have been corrected many times by many people who know what the doctrines and beliefs really are. They continue to publish the false information anyway. Why? Because the truth about the belief they are attacking isn’t shocking enough, or disgusting enough, or ‘different’ enough to keep people from investigating that belief further. They are afraid that the truth about the belief they hate would be too inviting, so…they lie about it. They know they are lying about it, and that’s perfectly acceptable to them.

It is a case of the ends justifying the means…“Lying for Jesus.”

Come to think of it, though, you have a point. “Cretin” means “stupid.” These people aren’t stupid, because their approach works. It shouldn’t, and it does not with me, but it works with many people.

So ‘cretin’ is the wrong epithet.
“Liars” is good. “Misguided” is kind–but considering that every single one of these people HAVE been corrected, and corrected many times, “misguided” is inaccurate. “Evil…” yeah. that works.

As you can probably tell, I don’t like such websites, publications or the sort of people who author either–and I don’t care who the target is. I am not 'saddened" by such sites. I am enraged.
 
In my experience the reason is because most protestants don’t understand the difference between veneration and worship. Probably because a lot of denominations simply venerate God, rather than worshiping him.
OK, I believe that this could be problematic. Do you really believe that Christians other than Catholics really just ‘venerate’ God?

Really?
 
OK, I believe that this could be problematic. Do you really believe that Christians other than Catholics really just ‘venerate’ God?

Really?
I think this is true of many people of all religions. They venerate God, but don’t seem to think that His decision is the final answer. He is the “decider”, but many people seem to believe, that while He is venerable and all, we don’t have to follow his law to the letter.

He tells us not to kill, but abortion is an exception. He tells us what to think about marriage, but we decide that divorce is ok, and at times having more than one spouse was OK, too.

This isn’t a matter of only commiting a sin. People who know it’s wrong to kill and have an abortion anyway because they are desperate know and accept that God is the ultimate authority, even if they don’t always follow perfectly. There are others who know that God tells us that we shouldn’t kill, but have decided that they, ultimately, are the “deciders” of what is right and wrong.

This is what I think the op meant when he said that people venerate God.
 
I’m only 15 and just a beginner Catholic, and I wasn’t aware of ALL the misinterpretation of Catholocism by other branches of Christianity. But now I have some idea. I found a website called jesus-is-savior.com, which devoted a lot of time to terrible misinterpretation through words, pictures, etc. Of Roman Catholocism. It shocked me. Naively, I hadn’t thought of what wrong things others might be reading about the faith. The website claimed that Catholics worship Mary, Catholics are heretics, the rosary is from the devil, etc. The whole thing has made me extremely sad. Have you seen this website personally, or had a similar experience of shock that I’ve had? How can anyone believe those things against the church?
That is undoubtedly the worst anti-Catholic site I’ve ever seen. To be honest I get a pretty good laugh out of it every time I look at it. This is one of those sites that advocates a King James only philosophy, saying that every modern translation of the Bible is erroneous and from the devil and the KJV is the only true and inspired English translation.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

What makes me laugh even harder is when Protestants references that site during online discussions with Catholics. That would be tantamount to someone referencing a KKK site in a discussion about Black History Month! No one would take a person who did that seriously and I recommend you do the same with that site.

Oh and happy Feast Day to everyone here!

Yours in Christ
Joe
 
Have you seen that on CAF? If so, how has LDS been misrepresented?

(Your chance to give the facts. :))
Kalt: 1. I didn’t mention CAF.
2. I didn’t mention Mormons.

However, since you did, how about this:

Beginning Apologetics Vol. 2
Fr. Frank Chacon and Jim Burnham

Answering Islam
Norman L. Geisler and Abdul Saleeb

Answering Jehovah’s Witnesses
Jason Evert

These are the three books for sale on the sidebar this morning. How much would you care to assure me that nothing in any of those books is inaccurate–or that, having been told that the information inside is inaccurate, that the authors/publishers immediately changed that information in the next edition?

Then I pulled this up, the next time I looked at CAF non-Catholic religions;

Inside Mormonism: What Mormons Really Believe
Isaiah Bennett

The Bible and the Qu’ran
Father Jacques Jomier

Beginning Apologetics 9: How To Answer Muslims
Jim Burnham

Now Karl Keating (founder of Catholic Answers…) writes this about Loraine Boettners’ book "Roman Catholicism" which uses the words of former Catholic priests to tell us “what Catholics really believe.”
Karl Keating:
These are the books—written by disaffected ex-Catholics or by people who never have been Catholic but who have made their mark in the world by pushing unadorned bigotry—from which Boettner gets his juiciest information. Relying on them for the straight story on the Catholic Church is like relying on a political candidate to tell you all the good points about his opponent. . . .

Now it may well be that a man leaving one religion for another can write fairly, without bitterness, about the one he left behind. But it stands to reason that most people who suddenly think they have an urge to write about their change of beliefs just want to vent their frustrations or justify their actions. Their books should be read and used with discretion, and they should not be used at all as explanations of the beliefs of their old religion if the books betray the least hint of rancor.(from Catholicism and Fundamentalism: The Attack on “Romanism” by “Bible Christians”)
And yet his organization publishes, and pushes at us almost constantly, this work by Isaiah Bennett incorporates the very ‘stuff’ that Mr. Keating decries. Oh, he’s not any where near as bad as the website under discussion in this thread, nor does he come down to the level of CRI or CARM, but he still uses pretty standard anti-tactics.

For instance, he absolutely refuses to consider that any Mormon could have anything but the basest motives for doing anything. If Mormons welcome you to a church meeting and are friendly, it’s “love bombing,” not a sincere welcome. If a Mormon shares his faith with you, it can ONLY be because he wants to jot up brownie points towards his own godhood, not because he might genuinely believe his own faith and want to share it. (come to think of it, that statement alone should ring alarm bells…if he didn’t believe it and want to share it, why on earth would he want to ‘earn’ a godhood he doesn’t ultimately believe in? )

Anti-whatevers will address all aspects of the target faith in order to discredit it, and will manipulate whatever he has to in order to do so. Bennett does this. He writes that the divorce rate in Utah is a little higher than the national average…and neglects to mention that among active Mormons it is lower—and lower by three points than the divorce rate of Catholics in America. He had access to the correct statistics, but chose to use the ones that looked bad, even if he had to be deceptive in order to do so.

The rest of his charges regarding Utah are similarly skewed…and that skewing is what is at issue here.

As well, Bennett uses anti-Mormon rhetoric and methods that he had previously condemned and refuted himself when he was a member of the church. He completely ignored his own defenses, and attacks the church (for instance, on polygamy) in areas that he had already addressed and defended. He writes, in Inside Mormonism, as if he had simply blanked out that part of his life and research.

He also throws out silliness in terms of criticism, such as saying that Joseph Smith’s use of the words “Adieu” and “Alpha and Omega” because they were French and Greek, neither of which languages would have been known by the ancient Americans that Joseph claimed wrote the book.

well, of course not. They didn’t know English, either…but Joseph did, and “adieu” and “alpha and omega” were, by the time of Joseph Smith, also solidly ENGLISH terms, since English is an inveterate stealer of words from other languages, especially when a concept is better expressed by a word from another language, or if we don’t happen to have one that fits.

Finally, Bennett’s insistance that we believe that God had physical sex with Mary…another charge by him that he himself refuted when he was a member of the church, arguing against the very quotes he uses in Inside Mormonism to claim that we do.

In other words, he knows better, but he does it anyway.

And THAT is the very definition of “anti”. .

(and thanks to Barry Bickmore, for his review of the above book)
 
Many believers feel that way when they come up against anti-sites like that, or are subjected to persecution verbal or physical. It’s natural…

But just because someone is lying about your beliefs doesn’t mean that your beliefs are true. Remember, these same people are just as nasty to Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses and pretty much everybody else who isn’t them.

You need to believe in Christ because He is true, not because other people hate you for your belief in Him.

…and they need to understand that nobody ever changed religions because his own has been sufficiently insulted.
Excellent observation. I could suggest that you go tell that one on the mountain!
 
er…

OK. If you say so.
And you mean? I admit to having little time for the LDS as an organisation/business but try to stick to the facts (you know, like DNA, archaeology, anthropology, linguistics, history, court records etc). I do not resort to distortions, lies and hatred that we are speaking of here.
 
And you mean? I admit to having little time for the LDS as an organisation/business but try to stick to the facts (you know, like DNA, archaeology, anthropology, linguistics, history, court records etc). I do not resort to distortions, lies and hatred that we are speaking of here.
Whether you do or not, your claim was for the church as a whole, and that "patience’ with other faiths was an indication of its truth.

The thing is, the Catholic church, historically, has not been all that patient with what it sees as heresy, or with what it sees as attacks upon its doctrine or people.

So…you might want to rethink your claim a little bit, there.
 
:ehh:

. “Evil…” yeah. that works.
Really sorry was trying to help you i did not meant to put a shovel in your hand.

I pray you and G-d 4 give me

Be blessed and have peace, for My world is not of his world, by His will may it be yours
 
I live in McMinn County, Tennessee. A 98% non-Catholic area, but although many might be a bit misinformed about what our Church teaches and does, most are kind enough to listen and respect it. I in turn, have learn a lot about them. Since moving here I understand the difference between a Baptist and a Methodist and no longer label them as Protestants either, because they are not.
hi Karen, thank you for your honesty. I can not imagine what it is like to be living in an area which is only 2% catholic. Thank God you have learned about some false beliefs from one religion to another religion. It is refreshing to hear a catholic say we are not all “potestants as catholics like to label any christian who is not catholic.

May God bless you and keep you strong in your faith

mpjw2

BTW karen, may I invite you to look at my “Jesus’ church of christian love” thread

I believe it might be of interest to you 🙂
 
That is undoubtedly the worst anti-Catholic site I’ve ever seen. To be honest I get a pretty good laugh out of it every time I look at it. This is one of those sites that advocates a King James only philosophy, saying that every modern translation of the Bible is erroneous and from the devil and the KJV is the only true and inspired English translation.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/niv.jpg

What makes me laugh even harder is when Protestants references that site during online discussions with Catholics. That would be tantamount to someone referencing a KKK site in a discussion about Black History Month! No one would take a person who did that seriously and I recommend you do the same with that site.

Oh and happy Feast Day to everyone here!

Yours in Christ
Joe
Catholics don’t even use NIV! :rotfl:
 
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