Saint Maria Goretti being attacked for protecting her Virginity

[AnemoneNarcisus]

Yes. God knows exactly what’s going to happen, he has everyone’s life planned out exactly how he wants it. Some are murdered, and some die gently in their sleep. It’s life.

But, that suggests that her murder’s actions were part of God’s plan. That means he wasn’t free, and committed no sin.

 

[Sneaux]

But, that suggests that her murder’s actions were part of God’s plan. That means he wasn’t free, and committed no sin.

I’m not saying that he didn’t committ a sin, I’m just saying that she was meant to die, no matter how she did die, she was meant to.

 

[AnemoneNarcisus]

I’m not saying that he didn’t committ a sin, I’m just saying that she was meant to die, no matter how she did die, she was meant to.

But, then she would never have been a ‘so-called-martyr’. Say, if she got sick and died, we would not know who she was - she would not be a Saint. This suggests that God never planned for her to become an ‘official’ Saint.

 

[Sneaux]

But, then she would never have been a ‘so-called-martyr’. Say, if she got sick and died, we would not know who she was - she would not be a Saint. This suggests that God never planned for her to become an ‘official’ Saint.

God had a plan for her to be exactly who she is in the Catholic church. He had a plan for her to be known, and if he didn’t, then we wouldn’t know who she is

 

[AnemoneNarcisus]

God had a plan for her to be exactly who she is in the Catholic church. He had a plan for her to be known, and if he didn’t, then we wouldn’t know who she is

But she is known for resisting a rapist, and being killed as a result. She is known as this ‘Martyr of Purity’ - and she’s easily the most famous Saint with that title. So, for her to be that ‘Martyr of Purity’, it was necessary for her to be murdered - as all ‘Martyrs of Purity’ that I know of were murdered. That suggests that God not only supported her attacker’s intention to kill her, but also caused it.

 

[robwar]

I’m not even arguing that. I’m arguing the meaning of ‘Martyr’.

And, again, ‘dignity’ really isn’t a fitting word.

You have a narrow view of martyr and rape is a crime against anothers dignity. Dying defending your faith and beliefs which include your morality does make you a martyr
in the eyes of the Church. I feel sorry for you, you have such a cold attitude about rape.

 

[Sneaux]

But she is known for resisting a rapist, and being killed as a result. She is known as this ‘Martyr of Purity’ - and she’s easily the most famous Saint with that title. So, for her to be that ‘Martyr of Purity’, it was necessary for her to be murdered - as all ‘Martyrs of Purity’ that I know of were murdered. That suggests that God not only supported her attacker’s intention to kill her, but also caused it.

God works in mysterious ways. Yes, it was horrible what happened to them, but think of all the people that they’ve inspired. Willing to die for God, that’s something very few people could do, and so inspiring.

 

[Irishgal49]

I was unsure where to place this, so I decided to place this thread here. If it needs to be move, please move it. So, let me get down to the actually reason I even created this thread.

I was looking around the internet (which is normally dangerous) on things with quotes on Saints. I saw this website/forum that had something about my patron Saint. But, after clicking on the link I was shocked to what I read. They were bashing Saint Maria Goretti, and mainly bashing the Church for praising for her virginity. Some of them said to the extent: how stupid of girl to die for her virginity than to save her life.

I had an urge to want to write something on the forum, but alas I am not a member, so that shoots down the idea of making a rebuttle. Question all of you here, how would we respond to this attacks on a little Saint who believed her virginity was precious?

When I think of all the readings I have done on my patron Saint, I think about how she denies her attacker and because she denied him he stabbed her, was she to just allow him to rape her, I mean she was trying to fight him off, she wasn’t laying there saying, “God doesn’t want this” and then he just start stabbing.

I mean I wanted to tell some of those people off, I mean the things they said about her and the Church, and her attacker were un-called for and personally I ask many of you, including myself pray for them.

God Bless,
Nikita, op

And what if she would have given in? No guarantee he still wouldn’t have stabbed her to death anyway is there??? She was doing what any woman does when attacked, fighting off her attacker. She was above everyone else in that she forgave him before she died.

 

[AnemoneNarcisus]

You have a narrow view of martyr and rape is a crime against anothers dignity. Dying defending your faith and beliefs which include your morality does make you a martyr
in the eyes of the Church. I feel sorry for you, you have such a cold attitude about rape.

But, how does she defend her morality? How did the other Martyrs of Purity defend their morality? How does rape damage a person’s morality? And, you and misusing the word ‘dignity’. Unless you are suggesting that rape victims are not worthy of honour or respect?

I couldn’t care less how you feel towards me, or how you interpret my views. All I can see is that you have not answered my question, which can only lead me to the conclusion that you are unable to answer it, because I am right.

EDIT: *She was doing what any woman does when attacked, fighting off her attacker. She was above everyone else in that she forgave him before she died. *

Not every woman fights off her attacker. Many cannot, and others choose not to. There’s no wrong response in that situation. And, from what I know, forgiving a person does not make a person a martyr. Also, the other Martyrs of Purity that I mentioned could not have possibly openly forgiven their attacker, as they are suggested to have died more quickly, so the point is moot anyway.

 

[robwar]

But, how does she defend her morality? How did the other Martyrs of Purity defend their morality? How does rape damage a person’s morality? And, you and misusing the word ‘dignity’. Unless you are suggesting that rape victims are not worthy of honour or respect?

I couldn’t care less how you feel towards me, or how you interpret my views. All I can see is that you have not answered my question, which can only lead me to the conclusion that you are unable to answer it, because I am right.

EDIT: *She was doing what any woman does when attacked, fighting off her attacker. She was above everyone else in that she forgave him before she died. *

Not every woman fights off her attacker. Many cannot, and others choose not to. There’s no wrong response in that situation. And, from what I know, forgiving a person does not make a person a martyr. Also, the other Martyrs of Purity that I mentioned could not have possibly openly forgiven their attacker, as they are suggested to have died more quickly, so the point is moot anyway.

She fought off her attacker by resisting him, telling him no and started to pray. he became enraged and stabbed her which cause her to die 4 hours later. Rape takes away a person’s self dignity and respect. These are the answers to your questions and you just don’t like them because you have a cold strange view about rape and morality. Women and men just don’t choose to submit unless that has been your experience.

 

[AnemoneNarcisus]

She fought off her attacker by resisting him, telling him no and started to pray. he became enraged and stabbed her which cause her to die 4 hours later. Rape takes away a person’s self dignity and respect. These are the answers to your questions and you just don’t like them because you have a cold strange view about rape and morality. Women and men just don’t choose to submit unless that has been your experience.

You still haven’t answered my question (why is a Martyr of Purity considered a martyr?), so I’m just going to assume you don’t have an answer.

Also, sometimes a woman’s body ‘plays dead’ when she is attacked, and she is pretty much unable to fight back. Also, shock, or fear can also stop a person from fighting back.

I’m pretty interested what about my view of rape is ‘cold’. You don’t like that I believe that women who have survived a rape should not be made to feel like they should be dead?

I can see how people on a Catholic forum may think that my morality is ‘cold’ - considering that I believe virginity has no worth - but my views on rape are not at all ‘strange’ from the people that I have met and spoken to outside this forum.

 

[dswoman40]

I would like to respond to the original post…submitting to your attacker does not mean you will preserve your life. I did not see any posts from someone who was in that situation, so I thought I would post my 2 cents. Many years ago, while I was in my 20’s, a man (stranger) pulled a gun on me, and told me, “don’t say anything and do what I tell you.” All I could think at the time was that I would rather die than be raped. So, I grabbed at the gun and struggled with him. Apparently, he decided it wasn’t worth the effort, so he ran off. I saw a car drive up and pick him up. Quite frankly, I don’t think I would be alive today if I had not resisted my attacker. I am not comparing myself to St. Maria Goretti, but the people who are behind that website are assuming that if she submitted to the rape she would have lived.

 

[robwar]

But, how does she defend her morality? How did the other Martyrs of Purity defend their morality? How does rape damage a person’s morality? And, you and misusing the word ‘dignity’. Unless you are suggesting that rape victims are not worthy of honour or respect?

I couldn’t care less how you feel towards me, or how you interpret my views. All I can see is that you have not answered my question, which can only lead me to the conclusion that you are unable to answer it, because I am right.

EDIT: *She was doing what any woman does when attacked, fighting off her attacker. She was above everyone else in that she forgave him before she died. *

Not every woman fights off her attacker. Many cannot, and others choose not to. There’s no wrong response in that situation. And, from what I know, forgiving a person does not make a person a martyr. Also, the other Martyrs of Purity that I mentioned could not have possibly openly forgiven their attacker, as they are suggested to have died more quickly, so the point is moot anyway.

I hope honestly that has not been your life experience and if so I am sorry for you. When I was in Junior High, a man started to follow and stalk me in a car. I used my wits and escaped. I have always had a heart for anyone who has been raped since I felt fortunate to escape being a victim. Martyrs of purity do offer especial help to anyone who has suffered in this manner.

 

[robwar]

You still haven’t answered my question (why is a Martyr of Purity considered a martyr?), so I’m just going to assume you don’t have an answer.

Also, sometimes a woman’s body ‘plays dead’ when she is attacked, and she is pretty much unable to fight back. Also, shock, or fear can also stop a person from fighting back.

I’m pretty interested what about my view of rape is ‘cold’. You don’t like that I believe that women who have survived a rape should not be made to feel like they should be dead?

I can see how people on a Catholic forum may think that my morality is ‘cold’ - considering that I believe virginity has no worth - but my views on rape are not at all ‘strange’ from the people that I have met and spoken to outside this forum.

no one is saying that women who have been raped should be dead at all and that is not at all what in behind martyrs for purity. It is a sad assumption on your part and I hope it is not based on your own experience.

 

[Sneaux]

You still haven’t answered my question (why is a Martyr of Purity considered a martyr?), so I’m just going to assume you don’t have an answer.

Also, sometimes a woman’s body ‘plays dead’ when she is attacked, and she is pretty much unable to fight back. Also, shock, or fear can also stop a person from fighting back.

I’m pretty interested what about my view of rape is ‘cold’. You don’t like that I believe that women who have survived a rape should not be made to feel like they should be dead?

I can see how people on a Catholic forum may think that my morality is ‘cold’ - considering that I believe virginity has no worth - but my views on rape are not at all ‘strange’ from the people that I have met and spoken to outside this forum.

Who said they should feel like they should be dead? You’re obviously going to have different opinions than people on a Catholic forum, as you are not religious. How many religious people have you talked to about your view on rape?

 

[TrueLight]

Some very good points in this thread on both sides.

Is dying because you did not want to be raped considered dying for your faith? Does it make you a martyr?

Is the Church saying that we should emulate this Saint?

 

[babochka]

What’s being overlooked is that St. Maria told her attacker that what he was trying to do was a sin… in effect, she was trying to stop HIM from sinning, warning him that he would go to Hell. He lived to testify to this at her canonization proceedings.

I think that is a very important point. Her concern was for preserving his soul as much as preserving her virginity.

I think this is a very important point, and one that is often overlooked when she is presented, especially to young girls, as the patron saint of purity. She is not a saint because her attacker killed her while she resisted his rape. She is a saint because of the extraordinary Christian love that she showed to her attacker during and after the attack.

 

[robwar]

If dying because you are resisting sexual assault not only due to self defense but your motivation is remain morally pure then obviously yes because the basis of your resistance is your faith and what you believe about it. Also St. Maria Goretti should be emulated because she completely forgave the man who killed her which really is the more powerful part of her story. Martyrs for purity have very powerful stories about resistance to death against immorality. Yes, they would not have committed mortal sin if they have survived but the point that it was so important to them to remain morally pure is something we all need today.

 

[Lochias]

I think this is a very important point, and one that is often overlooked when she is presented, especially to young girls, as the patron saint of purity. She is not a saint because her attacker killed her while she resisted his rape. She is a saint because of the extraordinary Christian love that she showed to her attacker during and after the attack.

This. While her virginity was something noble and pure, it’s not what made her a saint (though clearly, as so many saints have been virgins, it should be obvious to us Catholics that it’s something worth doing ourselves, until marriage, or as a priest, yadda yadda).

 

[robwar]

We live in such a sick immoral society that the fact that we have men and women who felt and believed that their moral integrity to God and themselves is so important that when they are faced with rape that they are willing to die for purity is being bashed or criticized is truly amazing. It shows how our standards are being affected by what surrounds us. This in no way says that it is better to die than survive a rape or that for those who have survived an assault have sinned and have no worth. Martyrs of purity tell us that we should value our own integrity to God and ourselves so much that and even that of the assailant and that this is worth dying for. Martyrs of purity demonstrate to always resist assault and they have died fighting back. They give us the badly needed moral courage for today. Morality does matter and is worth dying for. They are not victims for dying but victors over evil because the resisted it and didn’t give in. They give us courage to resist evil to the point of death and our examples for today.