Saint Paul and Islam

[holdencaulfield]

Dear Planten,

I believe that Islam teachs the follower to honor God too, such as the mandatory praying 5 times a day at specific time. So much that you are required to leave whatever you are doing in order to pray.

I as the Christian should learn such a good practice myself. Although we are required to pray as many time as possible, but still the liberty of the time chosen is not limited. But, I admit myself that I don’t even pray 5 times a day. Jesus, forgive me.

I am just saying that we should not think that God should do in accordance with our thinking. It is as simple as that. But, for sure, I don’t believe that God tell lies or deceive human.

 

[swariffin]

You should not mix up the things. According to your theory God could become a dog too !! Will you believe it?? Please think.

The truth is “God is not a man and man is not a God”.

Dear Planten,

God even appeared as a burning bush to Moses before. By the way, I believe that God can become anything He choses to be so. I am saying that we should not limit what God can do according to our mind.

If God becomes a dog, and such dog order you in your human language (understandable to you) to pray 5 times a day, will you quit praying because a dog says so? If I were you, I would not. And I begin to pray and find out what God really wants from me, by appearing as a dog. Perhaps, God wants to tell me that I am so bad, that in the eye of God, I am less worthy than a dog.

You are correct by saying “God is not a man and man is not a God”. But, God can become a man and man cannot become God.

 

[holdencaulfield]

Dear Planten,

God even appeared as a burning bush to Moses before. By the way, I believe that God can become anything He choses to be so. I am saying that we should not limit what God can do according to our mind.

If God becomes a dog, and such dog order you in your human language (understandable to you) to pray 5 times a day, will you quit praying because a dog says so? If I were you, I would not. And I begin to pray and find out what God really wants from me, by appearing as a dog. Perhaps, God wants to tell me that I am so bad, that in the eye of God, I am less worthy than a dog.

You are correct by saying “God is not a man and man is not a God”. But, God can become a man and man cannot become God.

Thank You

 

[inJESUS]

I simply don’t see any good reason for God to become a man here in this story,

i don’t thing He had you in mind while planing.

except for the fact that it follows the patterns of all other Gentile mythologies

 

[FaithofAbraham]

i don’t thing He had you in mind while planing.

Paul and John were Jews.

Jesus denied being David’s son.

Oh, I think God had each and every one of us in mind.

Matthew 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

And Jesus confirmed he was both son of David, as well as David’s Messiah and lord over him and all other humans, right here in one verse:

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Some people go too far in trying to prove their pet doctrines.

 

[inJESUS]

I touched on it.

to understand the I AM statement of Jesus, you must be familiar with contexts in both OT and NT.While the words ‘I am’ may not be profound in themselves, the way that they are formulated in John points the reader to thr OT for a correct understanding of who Jesus is.

Isaiah 43:10-12
“You are My witnesses,” declares the Lord, "And My servant whom I have chosen, In order that you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am.John 13:1-19
"From now on I am telling you before it comes to pass, so that when it does occur, you may believe that I am.

Isaiah 44:6
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.”
Rev 22:12-13
"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

Isaiah 42:6-8
"I am the Lord, I have called you in righteousness, I will also hold you by the hand and watch over you, And I will **appoint you **as a covenant to the people, As a **light **to the nations, To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the dungeon, And those who dwell in darkness from the prison. "I am the Lord, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images.
Acts 26:15-18
"And I said, **‘Who art Thou, Lord?’ **And the Lord said, 'I am Jesus whom you [Paul] are persecuting. 16 ‘But arise, and stand on your feet; for this purpose I have appeared to you, to **appoint **you a minister and a witness not only to the things which you have seen, but also to the things in which I will appear to you; 17 delivering you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you, 18 to **open their eyes **so that they may turn from **darkness to light **and from the dominion of Satan to God, in order that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.’

Isaiah 44:24
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, ]"I, the Lord, am the maker of all things,

Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone.
John 1:3
**“All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.” **

Deut 32:39
'See now that I,** I am **, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded, and it is I who heal; And there is no one who can deliver from My hand.
John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies,

Zechariah 14:9
And Jehovah will be king over all the earth; in that day the Jehovah will be the only one, and **His name the only one. **
Acts 4:12
“And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved.”

Isaiah 19:1
“Behold, Jehovah is riding on a swift cloud, and is about to come to Egypt.”
Mark 14:61-64
“Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?” 62 And Jesus said, “I am; and you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” 63 And tearing his clothes, the high priest *said, "What further need do we have of witnesses? 64 "You have heard the blasphemy; how does it seem to you?"

Isaiah 47:8,10
Jehovah speaking to Babylon: "Now, then, hear this, you sensual one, Who dwells securely, Who [Babylon speaking] says in your heart, ‘I am, and there is no one besides me. I shall not sit as a widow, Nor shall I know loss of children.’ 10 "And you felt secure in your wickedness and said, ‘No one sees me,’ Your wisdom and your knowledge, they have deluded you; For you have said in your heart, ‘I am, and there is no one besides me.’

Isaiah 46:9 "Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me

We see that the use of the I AM in the Bible is not a coincidence. It is a repetitive theme showing the Father and Jesus as God.

 

[inJESUS]

Paul taught all about trinity.

all talked about it.

There is no news about trinity in the OT

 

[FaithofAbraham]

 

[inJESUS]

What? If God created the Son then God had to exist before the Son in order to create the Son.

God did not create His Word. His Word proceeds (is begotten) from the Father eternally, There is no “time” when the Father was Word/Wisdomless.

 

[inJESUS]

Of course God can do anything, but really, why with Jesus?

why a burningh bush?

But all the good arguments against it I’ve made, for me…

 

[inJESUS]

Galatians 3:29-4:2 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

do all Christians have Abraham’s seed?

But the discussion in John parallels what is said about Melchizedek being greater than Abraham, .

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Galatians 3:29-4:2 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

do all Christians have Abraham’s seed?

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son** Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh**;

There is a difference between seed of the promise and seed of the flesh, as we see. Jesus is both seed of the promise and seed of the flesh.

Why do you want so badly to deny that Jesus descends physically from David, don’t you like King David and want for him his own son to receive his promise? I really don’t get where you are coming from, to just blow off every prophecy there is about Messiah just to try to prove somehow Jesus is God.

Why on earth is that so important, when Jesus is all that and more without being God since he as a human remained without sin and without benefit of being a God?

Yikes.

 

[inJESUS]

Oh, I think God had each and every one of us in mind.

thats not what i mean. I meant the He plans what to do, not what we think He has to do.

And Jesus confirmed he was both son of David

 

[planten]

Dear Planten,

I believe that Islam teachs the follower to honor God too, such as the mandatory praying 5 times a day at specific time. So much that you are required to leave whatever you are doing in order to pray.

I as the Christian should learn such a good practice myself. Although we are required to pray as many time as possible, but still the liberty of the time chosen is not limited. But, I admit myself that I don’t even pray 5 times a day. Jesus, forgive me.

I am just saying that we should not think that God should do in accordance with our thinking. It is as simple as that. But, for sure, I don’t believe that God tell lies or deceive human.

Thanks, You are right. We eat and smoke and play all day. We do business too. All time too much work, every day, eating and drinking too. We should find time for ourselves too. Time to relax, i.e. time to pray. You are right. We should find time between work for prayer.

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS;3223644:

And it’s like that with all of these things. You speak of correct context and then ignore it.

you will always be confused if you refuse to see HOW the NT applies the I AM of God in OT and the I AM of Jesus in a parallelism that clears all doubts as to what the authors wanted to convey about who Jesus is. These were inspired authors, knowledgeable of the OT context , style, and themes, and the parallelism they’re drawing does not drop on deaf ears for the ones who have ears to listen.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

FaithofAbraham;3223681:

you will always be confused if you refuse to see HOW the NT applies the I AM of God in OT and the I AM of Jesus in a parallelism that clears all doubts as to what the authors wanted to convey about who Jesus is. These were inspired authors, knowledgeable of the OT context , style, and themes, and the parallelism they’re drawing does not drop on deaf ears for the ones who have ears to listen.

In the first example you used a wrong verse from Isaiah, using a skewed translation to push that I AM business, instead of using the correct reference to Psalms with a better KJV translation.

So we see it has nothing to do with saying he is God, but it’s about a man who is betrayed by his friend while breaking bread with him.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[inJESUS]

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son** Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh**

;

There is a difference between seed of the promise and seed of the flesh, as we see. Jesus is both seed of the promise and seed of the flesh. so suddenly you realize that the word seed is not used physically right? if yu add what Paul says elsewhere, that Jesus is the Creator of everything, including David and his son, and that Jesus denied being David’s son, or being created, and that Jesus is the new David, not his son, then you’ll start seeing correct things.

Why do you want so badly to deny that Jesus descends physically from David,

 

[FaithofAbraham]

it is important to believe who Jesus said He is…picking and choosing is a sign of disbelief and disrespect.

You are simply ignoring that Jesus was created of the flesh of David, though he is also an inheritor of the promise. And because of your Trinity doctrine, denying that Jesus is king and lord over David even though he is also his son.

You see you use wrong verses to support your doctrine, and everything else, yet continue on without acknowledging anything. So it is what it is.

 

[inJESUS]

You are simply ignoring that Jesus was created of the flesh of David, though he is also an inheritor of the promise.

Jesus denies being created, He is the Creator, or that He could not have existed unless seeds and eggs were combined. He says we can do nothing without Him, not other way round.And if you tell me Jesus created Himself as David’s Son, Jesus denied it. And if you tell me Jesus is David’s literal son, then not only Jesus denies it, but the NT makes an explicit parallele between Jesus and David, not his son, unless they are the same person. There are just too many wholes in your argument that water is flooding because not only you oppose scriptures, but you give more importance to a prophecy instead of the Creator of these prophecies. Who Jesus said He is comes first, and how the prophecy was fulfilled comes second. You do not oppose scriptures because you want the “seed of David” to mean literal biological son…Just as Mary is the seed of David without being his daughter,just as gentiles are the seed of Abraham…likewise Jesus is the seed and branch of David in faith, in promise, in power, in kingship over Israel…and if you insist on lineage, then through Mary, and if you insist on David’s own seed, then as He created David’s seed, He could create the same seed and fulfill the promise, if you think the promise is about David’s sperms reigning for ever.

And because of your Trinity doctrine, denying that Jesus is king and lord over David even though he is also his son.

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS;3223836:

In the first example you used a wrong verse from Isaiah, using a skewed translation to push that I AM business, instead of using the correct reference to Psalms with a better KJV translation.

So we see it has nothing to do with saying he is God, but it’s about a man who is betrayed by his friend while breaking bread with him.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

What i quoted is the Bible , both OT and NT…not one word of tradition…you know in your heart how poor your reply based on translation and personal remarks is compared to the scriptures i presented (a few even) where parallelism is clear to anyone who has eyes to see and ears to listen.The authors knew very well what they were writing and they knew very well the parallelism is not lost to those who want to understand. Use any translation you want, the context is the same : the Father and His Word are One.