Saint Paul and Islam

[R_not]

When all of you speak of good things in islam, please post examples.

Also, here is something to think about when thinking of the countries that have either a muslim majority, or have allowed them in - none have peace as we know it. No Christian, or any non-muslim, is allowed to practice freely, to maintain or build a Church. Non-muslims have half the rights of a muslim and must pay very high taxes (jizya payments). They are dhimmi (subjugated peoples).

jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/why-dhimmi.htm

Here is something to think about when talking about moderates - also keep in mind that they consider our lands (not under sharia law) dar al harb (the land of war) which means that they can practice deception (taqiyya/kithman).

Defining the moderate muslim
jihadwatch.org/archives/010776.php

10 things to think of when thinking of muslim moderates:
jihadwatch.org/archives/004034.php

Here is an interesting letter from a guy who we call a ‘moderate’
sheikhharon.com/No%20Radical,%20No%20Moderate,%20Just%20Muslim.htm

Koran’s foundation for deception by muslims:
jihadwatch.org/archives/017491.php

taqiyya
jihadwatch.org/archives/015816.php

deception about taqiyya
jihadwatch.org/archives/015800.php

And keep in mind they will tell you anything you want to hear.

A good book to read is ‘A Never Ending War’, by Michael Cappi. He puts it in a good perspective.

 

[R_not]

testing

 

[Lapell]

Thank you for your insight, planten. I do agree with you that we should not speak of Islam as though there are not good things in it.

R_not, my point was not to say that I would become a follower of Muhammed tomorrow, far from it. The fact they deny Jesus’ death on the cross and seem not to have learned of the book of Job and the Biblical books of that time and after is enough for me not to go that way. I don’t believe, though, that Muhammed would have agreed with some ahadith written about him (probably from followers who kinda enjoyed going to wars and slaughtering so-called “Infidels”…) The fact that there are learned Muslims who disagree with such ahadith might point to an early interpretation which not everybody agreed with even in the early times right after Muhammed’s death, might it not?

 

[R_not]

R_not, I don’t believe, though, that Muhammed would have agreed with some ahadith written about him (probably from followers who kinda enjoyed going to wars and slaughtering so-called “Infidels”…) The fact that there are learned Muslims who disagree with such ahadith might point to an early interpretation which not everybody agreed with even in the early times right after Muhammed’s death, might it not?

Then you don’t know about mohammed. He did all the things his followers do - he enslaved, raped, tortured, beheaded/killed, issued fatwas (death sentences on others to be carried out by his followers), stole and lied. (for war is deception, per mohammed) and since he has split the world into two sections - dar al harb (the land of war) vs dar al islam (the land of islam) the muslims are instructed to mislead us on anything about islam.

His first battle against the Quraysh, he took all the males (even the boys if they showed hair in those private areas) and beheaded them all. The women he divvied up between him and his followers and took them as slaves. Who knows what happened to them - they probably were forced to convert as were the children. Slaves could be used as anything - sexual (yes, even the little boys), beaten, abused in any way, etc.

There are so many books, including the hadith and koran that gives highlights as to what mohammed was and his instructions to his followers. what you are doing is not doing any reading of anything and hoping that what you are saying, and what you hear from muslims, is true. How do you solve the problem that if islam is so peaceful and benign that there is so much violence wherever the followers go?

And the sad part is that this is their theology. allah, via mohammed, gave his followers orders to kill, subjugate and convert - that is the only choice you have as a non-muslim to be at peace with islam. and that is if you are ‘of the book’ - if you are a Hindu, Buddhist, etc - then things are not as rosey. Do you have a clue as to what is happening in India? or southeast Asia? The killings of not only Hindus but Buddhist monks? Now, tell me what do Buddhist monks do to people?!

Those ‘learned muslims’ will tell you exactly what you want to hear. I keep posting websites to explain taqiyya/kithman (deception in the land of war). Are you not reading anything?!

I hate to say this but so many are so unwilling to do any reading for themselves and take the word of the ‘wolf’ while they are the ‘chickens’. go back and look for my posts - I have given so many websites that you can cut/paste them and go through them at your leisure.

Even today muslims are prohibiting people from going into a bathroom at another airport. Gee, that sort of thing was ended - segregation - but now the muslims look at us as being dirty and won’t allow infidels into their bathroom. in the koran, chapter called Repentence, 14-28, it outlines how unclean we are - we are lower than pigs and feces:

The following ten things are essentially najis [impure, unclean]:

1. Urine
2. Faeces
3. Semen
4. Dead body
5. Blood
6. Dog
7. Pig
8. Kafir [unbeliever]
9. Alcoholic liquors
10. The sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat

This is their theology, this is from their koran, this is from their ‘prophet’.

 

[R_not]

Those who crashed the planes on Twin Towers (9/11) were war mongers. They may have had some score to settle. Please do not blame it on the religion that is Islam.

Perhaps they thought that it was the right way to bring supermacy to the religion. Whatever was done was quite wrong. That was not any good way. So it happened. Now every Muslim is suffering due to that. That is also not right. Why the poor innocent persons should pay the price for the mistake (crime) of others?

Of course, there are a lot many Muslims who believe in Jihad (fight in the way of Allah). The reason is that they do not have a learned spiritual leader. All they have are the political leaders. Those leaders are not guided. So they cannot impart the right guidance of peace and love to the Muslims. That is one reason that most Muslims are full of hatred for the Jews and the christians.

Hatred does not solve any problem. It is love that does it.

Well, your answer is misleading because islam does indeed say that jihad, the violent kind, is part of the religion. This is a common thing that those practicing taqiyya/kithman (deception) tell us quite often so we infidels get confused over islam. mohammed told his followers that the violent jihad is the most holy of all the jihads. But, yes, there are other types of jihad - immigration/uncontrolled birth rates, demands, taqiyya/kithman (deception to smooth over islam), hudna and da’wa to name a few.

With hudna being a way to regroup/rearm while in a ‘state of peace’ which means that they mix this with taqiyya (deception) misleads us. This is why islam is so insidious - they appear so peaceful at first but the violence follows. It is why we so often see that every country they have larger numbers of muslims in them - those same countries are so violent against the non-muslim population, and even their own with such things as ‘honor killings’, etc.

jihad - Jews and Christians must be warred against until they submit to Islamic rule, pay a special tax, and “feel themselves subdued” (Qur’an 9:29)

teaching on jihad. Qur’an 4:71-104 is an extended passage exhorting the believers to go forth courageously to jihad warfare.

This article also has a lot of passages that the koran tells its followers to kill us, subdue us, etc:

thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Quran-Hate.htm

 

[Lapell]

Then you don’t know about mohammed. He did all the things his followers do - he enslaved, raped, tortured, beheaded/killed, issued fatwas (death sentences on others to be carried out by his followers), stole and lied. (for war is deception, per mohammed) and since he has split the world into two sections - dar al harb (the land of war) vs dar al islam (the land of islam) the muslims are instructed to mislead us on anything about islam.

His first battle against the Quraysh, he took all the males (even the boys if they showed hair in those private areas) and beheaded them all. The women he divvied up between him and his followers and took them as slaves. Who knows what happened to them - they probably were forced to convert as were the children. Slaves could be used as anything - sexual (yes, even the little boys), beaten, abused in any way, etc.

There are so many books, including the hadith and koran that gives highlights as to what mohammed was and his instructions to his followers. what you are doing is not doing any reading of anything and hoping that what you are saying, and what you hear from muslims, is true. How do you solve the problem that if islam is so peaceful and benign that there is so much violence wherever the followers go?

And the sad part is that this is their theology. allah, via mohammed, gave his followers orders to kill, subjugate and convert - that is the only choice you have as a non-muslim to be at peace with islam. and that is if you are ‘of the book’ - if you are a Hindu, Buddhist, etc - then things are not as rosey. Do you have a clue as to what is happening in India? or southeast Asia? The killings of not only Hindus but Buddhist monks? Now, tell me what do Buddhist monks do to people?!

Those ‘learned muslims’ will tell you exactly what you want to hear. I keep posting websites to explain taqiyya/kithman (deception in the land of war). Are you not reading anything?!

I hate to say this but so many are so unwilling to do any reading for themselves and take the word of the ‘wolf’ while they are the ‘chickens’. go back and look for my posts - I have given so many websites that you can cut/paste them and go through them at your leisure.

Even today muslims are prohibiting people from going into a bathroom at another airport. Gee, that sort of thing was ended - segregation - but now the muslims look at us as being dirty and won’t allow infidels into their bathroom. in the koran, chapter called Repentence, 14-28, it outlines how unclean we are - we are lower than pigs and feces:
The following ten things are essentially najis [impure, unclean]:

1. Urine
2. Faeces
3. Semen
4. Dead body
5. Blood
6. Dog
7. Pig
8. Kafir [unbeliever]
9. Alcoholic liquors
10. The sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat
    This is their theology, this is from their koran, this is from their ‘prophet’.

Well, R_not, what source(s) did you take all this specifically from?

 

[Lapell]

Well, R_not, what source(s) did you take all this specifically from?

…About Muhammed, I mean!

 

[Deusdonat]

in the koran, chapter called Repentence, 14-28, it outlines how unclean we are - we are lower than pigs and feces:

The following ten things are essentially najis [impure, unclean]:

1. Urine
2. Faeces
3. Semen
4. Dead body
5. Blood
6. Dog
7. Pig
8. Kafir [unbeliever]
9. Alcoholic liquors
10. The sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat

This is their theology, this is from their koran, this is from their ‘prophet’.

R_not, while I agree with your comments regarding Mohammed (i.e. that he practiced and commited all the things we are denouncing from Mohammed terrorists today), I don’t know where you came up with your information above. I don’t know of any list like this in the Qur’an, and it is certainly not mentioned in the Surah At Tawba (Repentance). Maybe you got it from some Imam’s compiled list regarding his interpretation of Shari’a, but it’s not from the Qur’an. Please be mindful as you said yourself, “so many are so unwilling to do any reading for themselves and take the word of the ‘wolf’ while they are the ‘chickens’”. If we want people to come to us for legitimate info on the subject, we need to do our homework and verify it is accurate so as to erase all room for doubt.

 

[R_not]

Well, R_not, what source(s) did you take all this specifically from?

The koran.

I have given websites to the koran previously. Here are some more.

This article points to specific passages in the koran:

only shirk worse than killing non-muslims (infidels)
hotair.com/archives/2007/09/30/blogging-the-qur%e2%80%99an-sura-6-%e2%80%9ccattle%e2%80%9d-verses-1-83/

The order to kill, subjugate or convert as the only options for a muslim/non-muslim ‘peace’:
koran 9:29

there can be no peace between the Jews and muslims. Koran 60:4.

“I was ordered to fight all men until they say ‘There is no god but Allah.’” prophet Mohammad’s farewell address, March 632

I have read books about him in these books besides the koran and hadiths (which the muslims will tell you they do not obey - but they do - they are deceiving you if they say otherwise (taqiyya),
The Sword of the Prophet, Islam
From Time Immemorial
The Truth About Mohammed

start putting one and one together! Take all the violence that is happening worldwide that the muslims start vs what they say and their concern more over their image than stopping the jihadists, or stopping the arrogance and the call for segregation when it concerns them and us ‘dirty’ kufir.
A Never Ending War
Religion of Peace? Why Christianity is and islam isn’t
Religion of Peace? islams war against the world

 

[R_not]

R_not, while I agree with your comments regarding Mohammed (i.e. that he practiced and commited all the things we are denouncing from Mohammed terrorists today), I don’t know where you came up with your information above. I don’t know of any list like this in the Qur’an, and it is certainly not mentioned in the Surah At Tawba (Repentance). Maybe you got it from some Imam’s compiled list regarding his interpretation of Shari’a, but it’s not from the Qur’an. Please be mindful as you said yourself, “so many are so unwilling to do any reading for themselves and take the word of the ‘wolf’ while they are the ‘chickens’”. If we want people to come to us for legitimate info on the subject, we need to do our homework and verify it is accurate so as to erase all room for doubt.

Well, there is really no difference between sharia law and what muslims obey/follow. This is why they are so intent on practicing it even in our lands. They practice it in Canada, Europe, etc. even while these countries do not recognize sharia law (well, Canada has let them use sharia law for some violations to punish their muslims which is bad since it delegates women to 2nd class citizens, and other atrocious acts against humans)

you were given the website, but you didn’t go further by clicking on the references.

here is the website for the reference to the unclean in islam:
ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/ABewley/tawba2.html

I do not post anything that is not true. Do a search on the above website for ‘unclean’ or mushrikun.

This is why we are hearing of another airport (in Salt Lake City) that is banning us (infidels) in a bathroom - they consider us unclean. Lower than what goes in those toilets they have taken over. Now we should be suing them since segregation has not been allowed for about 3-4 decades now - but we are so afraid and politically correct that we are afraid to say it like it is. But, I digress.

If you have a question of a website, no problem.

The koran is full of passages of what mohammed was all about - koran 5:51, 60:4 (no peace with the Jews); slay the idolators, basically anyone who is not a muslim, 2:191; etc.

 

[Deusdonat]

Well, there is really no difference between sharia law and what muslims obey/follow.

True. Not in dispute.

you were given the website, but you didn’t go further by clicking on the references.

That website is not really valuable in that it is one person’s opinion. Regardless, it does not give that list you gave, which definitely does NOT come from the Qur’an as you said it did. There is no such list in the Qur’an.

I do not post anything that is not true. Do a search on the above website for ‘unclean’ or mushrikun.

I don’t need to as I speak Arabic. Mushrikun does not mean ‘unclean’. It means “those who practice shirk” or people who attribute pagan attributes to God. You in fact did post something that was untrue by saying the list you provided came from a specific Surah in the Qur’an (At-Tawba/Repentence) and you have been corrected. Merely pointing to a website is not necessarily a good reference. You should probably verify your information before quoting it. I could make a website that says pigs fly and quote from it. Hardly reliable though.

 

[R_not]

True. Not in dispute.

That website is not really valuable in that it is one person’s opinion. Regardless, it does not give that list you gave, which definitely does NOT come from the Qur’an as you said it did. There is no such list in the Qur’an.

I don’t need to as I speak Arabic. Mushrikun does not mean ‘unclean’. It means “those who practice shirk” or people who attribute pagan attributes to God. You in fact did post something that was untrue by saying the list you provided came from a specific Surah in the Qur’an (At-Tawba/Repentence) and you have been corrected. Merely pointing to a website is not necessarily a good reference. You should probably verify your information before quoting it. I could make a website that says pigs fly and quote from it. Hardly reliable though.

I do not believe I said Mushrikun meant unclean - I said to search for that in the website. I listed what the mushrikun believe to be unclean - and we fall below feces, pigs, etc on the list of unclean.

What this reference is is a blog of the koran. It references the koran - and one should go read the passages for themselves. I will not stop posting that since most are able to understand the blog more clearly then go to the passage to see for themselves. At least this is what I was told on several other blogs. The koran is kludgy and there is no logical order to it.

But, I will admit that to understand it more fully it is good to get an idea why it took hold so easily - one should study the Arabs a little more closely, their history. The tribal mentality, revenge, treating women as lower beings along with other things such as donkeys, and also to have an understanding of the religion of mohammed where he took many of his rites and ceremonies, along with his concept of god, from. Since he was an illiterate he got his stories from the Jews and christians of the time - they used to all live together and there were many more of them in the ME. Then something turned mohammed (this is in a different post where I think that he got some kind of head trauma - or something - but his Medina years are much more violent not only in his deeds, but the surahs that ended up in the koran contain this violence. And since in islam the newer (Medina surahs) replace the older (Meccan surahs) this is why islam has carried on its violence since 1400 years. But, also enables the muslims to quote to us, the ignorant, the peaceful passages.

 

[planten]

I do not believe I said Mushrikun meant unclean - I said to search for that in the website. I listed what the mushrikun believe to be unclean - and we fall below feces, pigs, etc on the list of unclean.

What this reference is is a blog of the koran. It references the koran - and one should go read the passages for themselves. I will not stop posting that since most are able to understand the blog more clearly then go to the passage to see for themselves. At least this is what I was told on several other blogs. The koran is kludgy and there is no logical order to it.

But, I will admit that to understand it more fully it is good to get an idea why it took hold so easily - one should study the Arabs a little more closely, their history. The tribal mentality, revenge, treating women as lower beings along with other things such as donkeys, and also to have an understanding of the religion of mohammed where he took many of his rites and ceremonies, along with his concept of god, from. Since he was an illiterate he got his stories from the Jews and christians of the time - they used to all live together and there were many more of them in the ME. Then something turned mohammed (this is in a different post where I think that he got some kind of head trauma - or something - but his Medina years are much more violent not only in his deeds, but the surahs that ended up in the koran contain this violence. And since in islam the newer (Medina surahs) replace the older (Meccan surahs) this is why islam has carried on its violence since 1400 years. But, also enables the muslims to quote to us, the ignorant, the peaceful passages.

Sorry. No offence is intended but whatever R_not is writing is not true. So nobody believe him please. See things for your self. In the last sermon, the prophet Muhammad told every one that all men are equal in the sight of God. The white has no superiority over the black and Arab has no superiority over the non Arab… And he said so many good things. But I see that those are being ignored (Forgotten) and some supposed words are beinga ascribed to the great prophet of the latest time.

Why not we should look for the good things.

 

[Reuben_J]

Sorry. No offence is intended but whatever R_not is writing is not true. So nobody believe him please. See things for your self. In the last sermon, the prophet Muhammad told every one that all men are equal in the sight of God. The white has no superiority over the black and Arab has no superiority over the non Arab… And he said so many good things. But I see that those are being ignored (Forgotten) and some supposed words are beinga ascribed to the great prophet of the latest time.

Why not we should look for the good things.

R_not quoted the verses from the Quran. There must be some explanations there.

If Mohammad said everyone are equal he was surely contradicting himself by his earlier verses. So an explanation is due.

Sure we can look for good things, but as R_not pointed, the Quran does include lots of bad things as well that cause concern for many of us.

 

[rikkk1958]

May I ask ou Muslim brothers if they Love Thy Neighbors? Which includes even the non believers of Islam? If they say yes, Let them explain the passages about slaughtering the Non believers.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

The order to kill, subjugate or convert as the only options for a muslim/non-muslim ‘peace’:
koran 9:29

there can be no peace between the Jews and muslims. Koran 60:4.

Where does this say to kill, I see fighting as debating on the Internet:

Quran 9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

All this is saying is that Jews who deny Jesus as Messiah aren’t following God and are inviting the devil to cause trouble:

Quran 60:4 There is a goodly pattern for you in Abraham and those with him, when they told their folk: Lo! we are guiltless of you and all that ye worship beside Allah. We have done with you. And there hath arisen between us and you hostility and hate for ever until ye believe in Allah only - save that which Abraham promised his father (when he said): I will ask forgiveness for thee, though I own nothing for thee from Allah - Our Lord! In Thee we put our trust, and unto Thee we turn repentant, and unto Thee is the journeying.

That’s why I don’t trust your bloggings, they twist what the Quran says to say the worst.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

R_not quoted the verses from the Quran. There must be some explanations there.

If Mohammad said everyone are equal he was surely contradicting himself by his earlier verses. So an explanation is due.

Sure we can look for good things, but as R_not pointed, the Quran does include lots of bad things as well that cause concern for many of us.

His study on it isn’t reliable.

 

[planten]

May I ask ou Muslim brothers if they Love Thy Neighbors? Which includes even the non believers of Islam? If they say yes, Let them explain the passages about slaughtering the Non believers.

Yes, it is a very strict order to love the neighbor and the neighbor in Islam is not the next door only. He is the next to next door upto forty doors (Hadith). There was so much strictness for love and sympathy to the neighbor that the prophet said, he felt that Allah will order to make the neighbor a share holder in inheritance.

Also, it is understood that neighbor may be a Hindu or a christian or a Jew or a budhist. All have to be treated as a neighbor. This is a general order and I am sure about it.

But what the Muslims are doing is nobody’s business. They may be misguided about it or misbehaving. There is illiteracy every where. If any Muslim is not helping his neighbor then he is a sinner. He should be ashamed of himself. Not only is he required to cater for the welfare of his neighbor but also to protect the life and honor of the neighbor under all costs.

 

[exoflare]

neutral source ( The BBC Documentary ).

 

[viper78912]

Muslims are genetically descendents of Hagar, the first single parent, rejected by Abraham. Hagar was also blessed by God (Genesis.21:13-18). Single handedly, she brought up Ishmael in the Egyptian deserts and raised a generation.
Like Mary, Hagar was also visited by Archangel Gabriel. (Genesis.21:17-19).
Hagar is a sterling role model for single mothers of today.
It is sad to note that monotheistic religions, especially in the the Holy Land are always in combat mode.