Saint Paul and Islam

[Lapell]

But what the Muslims are doing is nobody’s business.

… Until what they do affect the Non-Muslims, should we say, shouldn’t we? We have to be fair on both sides, now!

 

[Lapell]

It is sad to note that monotheistic religions, especially in the the Holy Land are always in combat mode.

I can see you don’t claim Jerusalem as your mother place like in Psalm 87 (86)!!! Therefore you can’t fathom what’s at stake there!!
It’s rather easy for you to make this comment.

 

[Lapell]

QUOTE=Reuben J;3262223]Wrong analogy. If they are your Pauls, then they are truly knowledgeable Muslims.

This is what it is now. Not during Adam’s time, there was no death in paradise. That’s why in Genesis 2:17 God said they were doomed to die if they disobeyed. They had been obedient before, there was no death, but when they sinned through disobedience, they were doomed to die.

We inherited this situation now because we all are descendants of Adam. It may sound unfair, but the deal was like that. They obeyed God and God gave them the paradise of Eden. They disobeyed God, they would be chased out of paradise to the lands of humans and of flesh.

All religions have three streams of followers:
The fundamentalists who believe in selective soteriology.Only they are God’s children. All others are condemned.
The moderates who believe that perhaps, others also might be children of God.
The futurists who believe that all created beings belong to the Family of Man under the Fatherhood of God. (CCC819). "Many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements. Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to ‘Catholic unity.’
When fundamentalists reign supreme, we have evil deeds like 9/11, and the Inquisition.
However, I like this one comment, Viper 78912.

 

[Lapell]

R_not, my point was not to say that I would become a follower of Muhammed tomorrow, far from it. The fact they deny Jesus’ death on the cross and seem not to have learned of the book of Job and the Biblical books of that time and after is enough for me not to go that way. I don’t believe, though, that Muhammed would have agreed with some ahadith written about him (probably from followers who kinda enjoyed going to wars and slaughtering so-called “Infidels”…) The fact that there are learned Muslims who disagree with such ahadith might point to an early interpretation which not everybody agreed with even in the early times right AFTER Muhammed’s death, might it not?

Wouldn’t this be a possibility?

 

[Deusdonat]

Muslims are genetically descendents of Hagar,

The overwhelmingly vast majority of Muslims are Indonesian. So, that statement makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

[Reuben_J]

The overwhelmingly vast majority of Muslims are Indonesian. So, that statement makes absolutely no sense at all.

I am very wary when people start making assumption about a whole race or religion being descended from some figures in the Old Testament. This can only be used to justify present day facism and maligning other people of different races and religions.

 

[Reuben_J]

Yes, it is a very strict order to love the neighbor and the neighbor in Islam is not the next door only. He is the next to next door upto forty doors (Hadith). There was so much strictness for love and sympathy to the neighbor that the prophet said, he felt that Allah will order to make the neighbor a share holder in inheritance.

Also, it is understood that neighbor may be a Hindu or a christian or a Jew or a budhist. All have to be treated as a neighbor. This is a general order and I am sure about it.

But what the Muslims are doing is nobody’s business. They may be misguided about it or misbehaving. There is illiteracy every where. If any Muslim is not helping his neighbor then he is a sinner. He should be ashamed of himself. Not only is he required to cater for the welfare of his neighbor but also to protect the life and honor of the neighbor under all costs.

I believe you haven’t answered rikkk1958’s question, “May I ask you Muslim brothers if they Love Thy Neighbors?”. That question, I believe, comes with a conotation from the Gospel.

 

[hamba2han]

The world’s total Muslim population is approximately 1.3 billion people, of whom less than twenty percent are Arabs.

More Muslims live on the Indian subcontinent (380 million) than in the entire Arab world, while Indonesia (190 million) has the largest Muslim population of any country on earth.

 

[planten]

May I ask ou Muslim brothers if they Love Thy Neighbors? Which includes even the non believers of Islam? If they say yes, Let them explain the passages about slaughtering the Non believers.

I believe I have answered the question in above posts (Post No. 536 &545). What the Muslims are doing nowdays is non of my business. Every faith is dwindling. I do not want to pass any adverse remarks about the christians. Thanks.

 

[Booklover]

I believe I have answered the question in above posts (Post No. 536 &545). What the Muslims are doing nowdays is non of my business. Every faith is dwindling. I do not want to pass any adverse remarks about the christians. Thanks.

Nice cop out! The answer is “There is no such thing as the Golden Rule in Islam!”, unless it applies to Muslims only, and even that isn’t accurate either, since Muslims even kill other Muslims with great dispatch!

Vickie

 

[Lapell]

But what the Muslims are doing is nobody’s business. They may be misguided about it or misbehaving. There is illiteracy every where. If any Muslim is not helping his neighbor then he is a sinner. He should be ashamed of himself. Not only is he required to cater for the welfare of his neighbor but also to protect the life and honor of the neighbor under all costs.

Is there anything in Islam about the duty to admonish sinners charitably? It would be a great thing.

 

[Booklover]

I will criticize it all I want. The Pope was not acting in an infallible position when he did that putrid act. The koran is a book of battle tactics against all non-muslims. Read it for yourself.

Another poster said to post from the koran to prove my point. Ok, here goes:

‘Shirk’ is worse for a muslim than killing a kufir.
hotair.com/archives/2007/09/30/blogging-the-qur%e2%80%99an-sura-6-%e2%80%9ccattle%e2%80%9d-verses-1-83/

Koran’s foundations for taqiyya, or deception by muslims in the land of war (dar al harb):
jihadwatch.org/archives/017491.php

1. “I was ordered to fight all men until they say ‘There is no god but Allah.’” prophet Mohammad’s farewell address, March 632
2. “I was ordered to fight the people until they say there is no god but Allah, and his prophet Mohammed.”
   Osama bin Laden, Nov 2001

Nov 15,2007 – over 10,000 muslim attacks since 9/11:
sheikyermami.com/2007/11/15/ten-thousand-reported-islamic-jihad-terror-attacks-since-911/#comment-21576

Muslim’s stated goal to take us over by 2050
jihadwatch.org/archives/018733.php

‘No muslim should be killed for killing (a disbeliever).’ Hadith Sahih al-Bukhari, vol1, book3, no. 111

Negotiation – islam style.
hotair.com/archives/2007/11/18/blogging-the-qur%e2%80%99an-sura-9-%e2%80%9crepentance%e2%80%9d-verses-6-14/

Persistence of muslim slavery:
jihadwatch.org/archives/017455.php

Sudan, Darfur, and the Jihad:
jihadwatch.org/archives/018596.php

A video of an imam preaching hatred in his mosque (the primary duty of imams IS to preach jihad)
switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ClipMediaID=60227&ak=null

UN against freespeech if it pertains to islam/muslims, ok if it pertains to any non-muslim bashing:
jihadwatch.org/archives/019428.php

Female circumcision:
nytimes.com/2008/01/20/magazine/20circumcision-t.html?_r=2&scp=2&sq=circumcision&st=nyt&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/019729.php

Moral equivalency comparison between islam and Christianity
doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/moral-equivalency-between-islam-and-christianity/

Churchill on islam:
carolinajournal.com/exclusives/display_exclusive.html?id=3158

The one thing I can count on in this life besides death and taxes is that islam is the ‘gift that keeps on giving’ when asked to provide proof that it is violent. All one really has to do is look for themselves, but most are too lazy to do so, and/or some would rather keep their heads in the sand. But keeping the head in the sand only makes you a nice, big target.

A very good book to read is, ‘A Never Ending War’, by Michael Cappi.

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Those who crashed the planes on Twin Towers (9/11) were war mongers. They may have had some score to settle. Please do not blame it on the religion that is Islam.

Another typical Muslim cop out! As this article so aptly states:

2. Accuse the person of racism or Islamophobia (This is one of the best tactics!). Say they are “filled with hate” (this works really well with Liberals!). Restrict your arguments to a specific subject (How Muslims are persecuted and misunderstood). Generalize a lot. Never suggest that a person examine both sides of the issue (that is, compare arguments from anti-Islamic sites with those from Muslims experts). **Never refer to the hate and violence Muslims do. Say that the actions of Muslims have nothing to do with Islam. **

Perhaps they thought that it was the right way to bring supermacy to the religion. Whatever was done was quite wrong. That was not any good way. So it happened. Now every Muslim is suffering due to that. That is also not right. Why the poor innocent persons should pay the price for the mistake (crime) of others?

What about all the innocent non-Muslims that continue to suffer and be killed because of Islam’s intolerance? Of course, I forgot, there are no “innocent” non-Muslims!

7. **Claim that Muslims are unjustly persecuted (**never mention 1200 years of jihad against infidels, the treatment of non-Muslims in Islamic societies or current events). Mention the classical era when Islamic societies led the world in science, medicine and philosophy (Do not mention this was 700 years ago and that much of it was based upon ancient Greek works or influenced by the hated Jews living in those countries)

Of course, there are a lot many Muslims who believe in Jihad (fight in the way of Allah). The reason is that they do not have a learned spiritual leader. All they have are the political leaders. Those leaders are not guided. So they cannot impart the right guidance of peace and love to the Muslims. That is one reason that most Muslims are full of hatred for the Jews and the christians

Well, at least you admit the hatred against Jews and Christians but omit that most of the hatred is preached in the mosques!

Hatred does not solve any problem. It is love that does it.

So when are Muslims going to face up to the fact that Islam is not and never was a religion of peace???

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Sorry. No offence is intended but whatever R_not is writing is not true. So nobody believe him please. See things for your self. In the last sermon, the prophet Muhammad told every one that all men are equal in the sight of God. The white has no superiority over the black and Arab has no superiority over the non Arab… And he said so many good things. But I see that those are being ignored (Forgotten) and some supposed words are beinga ascribed to the great prophet of the latest time.

Why not we should look for the good things.

Muhammad’s evil deeds far outweigh the good ones!

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

I can’t even believe it. Killing just to kill because some knothead a long time ago said to kill because that is what he did. This is why no questioning islam and why jihadists ALWAYS use the koran as their justification for their chaos and killing. And now the followers of this guy continue their killing. And we have seen those muslim ‘charities’ are just set up to support jihadists by the ones who are not actively killing, but deceiving us as to what their goals are. I find that disgusting and why I find the koran offensive and a book that should be banned.

Too bad our own ‘scholars’ don’t read these blogs because if they did they might start putting one and one together and stop their appeasement of muslims. and stop calling jihadists - islamics. They are muslims. And to start questioning those masses of ‘moderates’ who only practice deception and only worry about their image instead of stopping the jihadists. We are the only ones who want a change in islam - there is not effort by the masses of ‘moderates’ to do anything. Instead, they dance and ulalate when their ‘martyrs’ die blowing others up.

No more mosques should be built and no more of a recognition of islam as a ‘religion’ but indeed it is a political movement meant to either do one of three things, 1. kill infidels, 2. convert infidels to islam (gag), 3. subjugate them (dhimmi) in their own lands. this has been why no peace has come over all the attempts at peace with the ME muslims - or why Southeast Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe are rife with strife. And the buildup of muslims here, in europe and Australia - they are looking to do the same here after our own let them because they think it is cool to appease muslims. All the masses of ‘moderates’ do is claim that they are the victims, or whine that their image is tarnished when we figure what they are all about.

there is no trying to attain a higher goal for the human in islam, only statement after statement of what carnal lusts they should be afforded to them - here on earth and in their idea of heaven.

It’s good to see someone else who is not PC about Islam!

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

I guess we need to also take all Christian apocrypha as truth too. No, many Hadith are nonsense, and many Muslims will tell you the same.

Why are those hadiths nonsense? This article about the Quranyon, Muslims who accept only the Quran and dismiss the hadiths, explains the irrational logic of Muslims:

“The Quranyon have full knowledge of Mohammed’s history *(Sira) *and his example *(Sunna) *, but their knowledge leads them to laughable conclusions. In effect, their argument goes like this: ‘because the history of Mohammed is disgraceful, and because his ahadith (deeds and sayings) are filled with nonsense, then these ahadith must be wrong!’ This is like saying ‘because all the available evidence incriminates the suspect, then all the available evidence must be wrong! This back to front irrational analysis is not unique to the Quranyon but common among Muslim scholars in general and reflects the extent of damage that Islam inflicts on human wisdom.”

Vickie

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Why are those hadiths nonsense? This article about the Quranyon, Muslims who accept only the Quran and dismiss the hadiths, explains the irrational logic of Muslims:

Vickie

Why is it any more irrational than Christians who dismiss apocrypha about Jesus killing playmates in a temper tantrum, and all the other ludicrous things they say? Do you accept every bit of trash that comes along about Jesus, just because the writings say some pal of his claimed it was true?

Sounds like a double standard to me.

 

[Booklover]

Why is it any more irrational than Christians who dismiss apocrypha about Jesus killing playmates in a temper tantrum, and all the other ludicrous things they say? Do you accept every bit of trash that comes along about Jesus, just because the writings say some pal of his claimed it was true?

Sounds like a double standard to me.

You’re just evading the issue by using a tu quoque! The hadiths are supposed to be from authentic Islamic sources!

Vickie

 

[FaithofAbraham]

You’re just evading the issue by using a tu quoque! The hadiths are supposed to be from authentic Islamic sources!

Vickie

According to who, critics who want to use them to sling mud? There is no evasion, I go by Quran only, same as Christians who go by Bible only and not all the apocryha.

The day you accept all apocrypha as true, I’ll accept Hadith. That’s fair.

 

[Pete_1]

I have not been really following this discussion but I just thought I would add this quote in:

2 Peter 3
15 And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you:

peace,