Saint Paul and Islam

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R_not said:
Why do you think that past history and our changing so we don’t do it anymore has anything to do with the atrocities that the muslims do to this day?
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You mean the past like six years ago when they finally made Law resign after covering for pedophiles? If I had to choose I’d take murderers over pedophiles any day. Mostly because that sex abuse is so gross and destroys faith in God.

We’ll see in Heaven who has done the most wrong. And the blame will be even worse on Christians because they know about a loving Jesus, Muslims don’t have that luxury because they’ve been turned away from the Bible after seeing Christianity fail so many times.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
You mean the past like six years ago when they finally made Law resign after covering for pedophiles? If I had to choose I’d take murderers over pedophiles any day. Mostly because that sex abuse is so gross and destroys faith in God.

We’ll see in Heaven who has done the most wrong. And the blame will be even worse on Christians because they know about a loving Jesus, Muslims don’t have that luxury because they’ve been turned away from the Bible after seeing Christianity fail so many times.
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your own ‘prophet’ was a pediphile. and in islam the muslim males can still take child brides of 9 years old. so, don’t talk to me about pediphilia. and don’t forget the slaves that muslims hold - if they are children - they are abused by the muslim male any way they want to abuse them. I am sure the muslim female gets her licks in too.

Our society takes pediphiles - as with murderers and rapists - hunts them down, gives them a trial and metes out punishment. A muslim society ignores the whole thing. Nothing is done to the perp.

so, you say that muslims turned to islam because Christianity failed? I think you forgot the terrorism, the enslavement, and the forced conversions. And with the uncontrolled birth rates - even though muslims haven’t figured out that instead of buying bombs they should figure out how to feed their offspring - all of these things have been the reasons for conversions. It has nothing to do with a so called failed Christianity. Basically, it has been the sword that has forced conversions on people.

In the 20th century we have seen the muslim violence against the dhimmi (subjugated non-muslims in muslim lands) increase so much that the dwindling populations are in the single digit percentage numbers.

Sorry, but you still haven’t proved anything regarding islam - keep on trying - it is starting to get amusing.
 
Well… Hi again!
Is FaithOfAbraham a Muslim or a…Christian? Has anybody bothered to ask him? I took him for a Jew once and then I assumed he was a Muslim. Maybe he is, or had been. I don’t know!
I never meant that no Catholics acted wrong. But accusing individuals, whether Catholic or Muslim, is not quite like accusing the Catholic Church or Islam. If an individual misinterpret the verses away from their context and from the whole context of the Bible or of the Koran, or widen or narrow the meaning of one specific thing asked of the faithful too much, it can lead to unspeakable excesses and much damage can be done. As a result, the people point their index fingers to the religions, when it’s really the fault of individuals, and the more numerous they are, the more the people’s accusations against the religions will look stronger and justified. It shows one thing: that WE humans all are wounded deep within from the consequences of the first sin of the first human couple to appear on the face of the earth. So that even good people do the wrong they never wished to do in the first place. Like FoA said, we all need to do a “reality check”, which we Catholics call an examination of conscience. We need to admit each our wrongs! How much forgiveness needs to be given and received! Mutual forgiveness would be great! Too bad some people would say it would just be showing a weakness. Better God’s weakness than human strength which, even at its peak, is limited and finite! God is eternal, and men die! Who can raise them back to life, if not God? Then let go back to God’s ways and live according to His spirit! Not a simple thing to do but with God’s help…
God love you!
 
Lapell said:
Well… Hi again!
Is FaithOfAbraham a Muslim or a…Christian? Has anybody bothered to ask him? I took him for a Jew once and then I assumed he was a Muslim. Maybe he is, or had been. I don’t know!
I never meant that no Catholics acted wrong.
God love you!
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faith-of-abraham is a usual load of balogney that muslims give try to equate islam with Judaism and Christianity. Basically, they call it an ‘abrahamic’ faith.

There is nothing ‘abrahamic’ about it. Here is a video on ‘who is allah’ - basically it is fashioned after mohammed’s pagan religion. mohammed wanted to convert the Jews and Christians to his religion so he threw in some Bible stories that he probably heard. Since he was an illiterate he couldn’t read the Bible and he screwed up the stories. (and he conveniently said that we were the ones who screwed up the Bible and that if anyone redoes the koran - then they will be condemned - no wonder the only ones who want islam to change is us - the muslims won’t do it)

But, back to islam and allah. None of the ceremonies are fashioned after Judaism or Christian’s rites - but after the rites of his pagan religion. Running around a rock and then spitting, and running to another rock - neither the Jews or Christians do that. mohammed at one point even wanted to add some more gods but he was advised not to do that.

This video - you better watch it now because the muslims are pretty successful at getting things censored - is a good video of an ex-muslim, Walid Shoebat, talking about allah - the pagan god.

youtube.com/watch?v=iW4EDy7rxqI

This is why our own Church leaders do us so much of a disservice by not finding out about islam before they accept this hogwash that islam is a ‘abrahamic’ religion. And their appeasement of muslims while muslims do not tolerate us, kill our brothers and sisters around this globe and basically want us either dead, subjugated (dhimmi) or converted to islam.

And a good point that Walid points out is this allah, is a warring god, and other things that are rather nasty (you got to read the koran and hadiths too, learn the sharia laws, and find out for yourself) that does not make this allah thing anything near to what the Jews and Christian’s God is. In fact - allah is indeed a moon god. The crescent moon and star are indeed pretty good representations of what this religion is all about. Night - darkness - chaos - death - destruction - lies (for mohammed said that ‘war is deception’ because muslims are at continual war in our lands not under sharia law).
 
R_not said:
faith-of-abraham is a usual load of balogney that muslims give try to equate islam with Judaism and Christianity.
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I was speaking of the one who signs FaithOfAbraham, not what that name stands for! Is that man a Muslim, or a non-Catholic Christian? Did someone ever ask him before? In just assuming one might come to the wrong conclusion, you know…
 
Did YOU ever check who he is? (Not the name, but which faith or denomination)
 
Deusdonat said:
Hello Lapell. Just to let you know, FOA sometimes says he “identifies” with Islam, but his beliefs are for the most part his own (i.e. you would never hear a Muslim way what he says).
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This quote is from page 37! But then…
 
Lapell said:
As a result, the people point their index fingers to the religions, when it’s really the fault of individuals, and the more numerous they are, the more the people’s accusations against the religions will look stronger and justified. !
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islam is not a religion that you speak of like other religions. It is indeed the ‘religion’ that promotes violence, death and destruction. mohammed told his followers to wage jihad against the non-believers and with the violent jihad as being the most sacred.

Shirk is worse than killing, and doing other atrocities, to the infidels.

hotair.com/archives/2007/09/30/blogging-the-qur%e2%80%99an-sura-6-%e2%80%9ccattle%e2%80%9d-verses-1-83/

here are two quotes from two prominent muslims:
  1. “I was ordered to fight all men until they say ‘There is no god but Allah.’” prophet Mohammad’s farewell address, March 632
  2. “I was ordered to fight the people until they say there is no god but Allah, and his prophet Mohammed.”
    Osama bin Laden, Nov 2001
Basically Christians are taught to love thy neighbor and forcibly convert or kill your neighbor is a very big difference in religions. And it shows what islam is all about too.

Here is a write up on the moral equivalency between islam and Christianity.

doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/moral-equivalency-between-islam-and-christianity/

The only thing I can say is to get the head out of the behind and READ! Read it for yourself - it is all there.

Here is a writeup on slavery in islam. Notice that mohammed said it was ok to rape them and make sure to not practice coitus interruptus - in other words - get them pregnant too! And slavery is practiced to this day. In 1967 (or later 1960s) the saudis agreed to reduce their slaves and stop practicing slavery. Well, as with all agreements that muslims make with infidels - it was not followed. They certainly do to this day still practice slavery.

answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/slavery.htm

I could go on but I can only take so much of the violence that is islam that for now I have to stop. I will post later if there are any responses. And I hope people are not turned off by all of this - cut/paste these - read them later - look up the references - READ! We have a very, big problem and being ignorant of it is not the way to go. Also I can’t figure out how to get our Pope, and everyone beneath him, to STOP appeasing muslims while so many people are being slaughtered at their hands. They all need to START being leaders and STOP disseminating poor information! Stop letting muslims use our churches - those same churches that they will either destroy or convert into a mosque while they do not let anyone else build or repair their church/temple. I don’t know the list just goes on as to the atrocities that muslims do because of islam.
 
Lapell said:
I was speaking of the one who signs FaithOfAbraham, not what that name stands for! Is that man a Muslim, or a non-Catholic Christian? Did someone ever ask him before? In just assuming one might come to the wrong conclusion, you know…
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Nope - didn’t have to.

Why don’t you ask him? I personally don’t care. He argues with me - I argue back. All his arguments are fruitless and as for a conclusion - I have only come to the conclusion that islam is evil and anyone arguing for it is either ignorant of it, either because they chose to be or just don’t know yet. And to find out for yourself/themselves - READ! Read its violent history both past and present, read its koran, hadiths, sharia laws, about its prophet, etc. Stop taking the word of muslims that it is so peaceful while they have slaughtered and continue to slaughter so many.

Oh well, Like I said I could go on but I really do have to go now.
 
Deusdonat said:
True. Not in dispute.

That website is not really valuable in that it is one person’s opinion. Regardless, it does not give that list you gave, which definitely does NOT come from the Qur’an as you said it did. There is no such list in the Qur’an.

I don’t need to as I speak Arabic. Mushrikun does not mean ‘unclean’. It means “those who practice shirk” or people who attribute pagan attributes to God. You in fact did post something that was untrue by saying the list you provided came from a specific Surah in the Qur’an (At-Tawba/Repentence) and you have been corrected. Merely pointing to a website is not necessarily a good reference. You should probably verify your information before quoting it. I could make a website that says pigs fly and quote from it. Hardly reliable though.
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In telling about the Koran and Muhammad and theMuslims in general, wouldn’t we base our informations on more reliable sources? If someone can say our source is not, we shouldn’t keep come up with it, should we?
 
O.K., R_not!
Well, FaithOfAbraham, are you a Muslim? If not, are you a Christian? Or of no one organised religion?
 
I just reviewed some past posts and it would be a surprise if FoA were a Christian. He doesn’t believe Jesus to be God the Son, he doesn’t believe in the Holy Trinity (one God in three persons). If it’s because such things cannot be fully understandable, we’d be on the same boat. Except that I do believe these things to be true nonetheless, thanks be to God! So, come to think of it, if he were a Christian he would be a heretic. At least, some parts of God’s Revelation (that is, the whole of the Bible -including the Deuterocanonical books- , the Christian Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church) seem not to have access in him…
Anyhow, some Christians fell in the heresy saying that Jesus is not God, only a man. To those believing only through their senses that’s understandable, and yet they are erring no less.
Still, this doesn’t mean that the grace of God can’t work in somebody like him… If he KNEW the Catholic Church to be truly the one true Church and KNEW that Jesus truly IS God the Son, the 2nd person of the Trinity, that would be something else: his denying it while knowing it would be extremely wrong THEN! There are many misunderstandings about so many things about Jesus, God, the Church… And “we walk by faith, not by sight”, as saint Paul said! On matters of… well, faith, it certainly is true!
 
Lapell said:
In telling about the Koran and Muhammad and theMuslims in general, wouldn’t we base our informations on more reliable sources? If someone can say our source is not, we shouldn’t keep come up with it, should we?
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go read it for yourself. I posted before that site - a ‘blogging the koran’ website so all you had to do is read the koran, and then if you need clarification just read the ‘blogging the koran’. Then the other post was not to explain mushrikin - it was to explain what muslims consider dirty - and we infidels rate lower than pigs and feces. I explained in a later post.

Go read the koran for yourselves. No one is stopping you. The problem is that you won’t know which surahs are the Medina surahs (violent passages that have abrogated the peaceful Meccan surahs) or which are the Meccan. The koran is in no logical order. And it does indeed help to read the hadiths.

Will it all give you a headache and be hard to stay awake - yes - I will not deny that. It is nonsensical most of the time. That is why ‘blogging the koran’ helps.

Basically, what it sounds like is that you are unable to believe that a religion could be so nasty. Well, it is. I cannot help it I am only a messenger. I will say again, and it probably won’t be the last time - Read it for yourself. Don’t worry about being converted either - it is the reason why islam is either forced on people or people such as psychopaths take to it - it is not easy to swallow. And a notable psychopath, Abu Sayeff, said that it was the perfect religion for him since it is the only way he could make it to heaven. Abu killed a lot of people in the philippines.
 
Lapell said:
I just reviewed some past posts and it would be a surprise if FoA were a Christian. He doesn’t believe Jesus to be God the Son, he doesn’t believe in the Holy Trinity (one God in three persons). If it’s because such things cannot be fully understandable, we’d be on the same boat. Except that I do believe these things to be true nonetheless, thanks be to God! So, come to think of it, if he were a Christian he would be a heretic. At least, some parts of God’s Revelation (that is, the whole of the Bible -including the Deuterocanonical books- , the Christian Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church) seem not to have access in him…
Anyhow, some Christians fell in the heresy saying that Jesus is not God, only a man. To those believing only through their senses that’s understandable, and yet they are erring no less.
Still, this doesn’t mean that the grace of God can’t work in somebody like him… If he KNEW the Catholic Church to be truly the one true Church and KNEW that Jesus truly IS God the Son, the 2nd person of the Trinity, that would be something else: his denying it while knowing it would be extremely wrong THEN! There are many misunderstandings about so many things about Jesus, God, the Church… And “we walk by faith, not by sight”, as saint Paul said! On matters of… well, faith, it certainly is true!
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It was the same conclusion that I came to along with his name which is a giveaway too.

But, I agree with you on all your points.

The muslims believe that Jesus was just another prophet and not a Son of God because they are unable to get over the fact that a God could be human and do human things (like go to the bathroom) and that is why you will hear them say about Jesus - Jesus, the son of Mary. They will not acknowledge Him as the Son of God.

And they think that Christians are polytheists - that we believe in more than one God.

One thing I hope you notice is that I will never capitalize anything regarding islam - its prophet, mohammed - or allah. I might make a mistake in typing on other things - but I will always make sure they are not capitalized. To me it is a big deal.
 
R_not said:
One thing I hope you notice is that I will never capitalize anything regarding islam - its prophet, mohammed - or allah. I might make a mistake in typing on other things - but I will always make sure they are not capitalized. To me it is a big deal.
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I don’t have a problem with your doing so, since you do it from conviction. Even though we disagree on certain points…
 
Lapell said:
O.K., R_not!
Well, FaithOfAbraham, are you a Muslim? If not, are you a Christian? Or of no one organised religion?
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None really. I finally decided not to identify as a Muslim anymore after a few years of doing it, just as I did with being Christian. All their religions are too corrupt and I get tired of defending them, I’d rather discuss my own personal beliefs without theirs muddying the water.

So I’m just solo with the Quran and Bible. I might start observing more Torah like a Messianic Jew, I’m feeling drawn to do that more and more as time goes on.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
None really. I finally decided not to identify as a Muslim anymore after a few years of doing it, just as I did with being Christian. All their religions are too corrupt and I get tired of defending them, I’d rather discuss my own personal beliefs without theirs muddying the water.

So I’m just solo with the Quran and Bible. I might start observing more Torah like a Messianic Jew, I’m feeling drawn to do that more and more as time goes on.
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FoA, you are a man of conviction. As your faith journey continues, I wish you the best.
 
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