Saint Paul and Islam

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FaithofAbraham said:
If the very structure of a Christian religion has a leader that lives in riches like Caesar instead of poverty like Jesus, something is wrong from the start.
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And just how do you KNOW it IS the case, Faithof Abraham? And wasn’t the Temple of Jerusalem something big enough before its destruction? It was very elaborate, with plenty of things, each one having a meaning in its place. It was meant to tell of the greatness of God, His holiness and His beauty. And the Jewish people was willing to provide many of the things needed for it, at least in the case of the second temple. Did the Jews have to be ashamed of the size and the cost of their temple? I don’t believe so! As for those places you talked against, were they built in the 20th century? Or the 19th? Or the 18th? In denigrating the so-called luxury of them, you speak rather easily, you just repeat old accusations, so often said, without any concern for the people, just seeking to destroy the Catholic Church, And I will tell you another thing…
 
Lapell said:
And just how do you KNOW it IS the case, Faithof Abraham? And wasn’t the Temple of Jerusalem something big enough before its destruction? It was very elaborate, with plenty of things, each one having a meaning in its place. It was meant to tell of the greatness of God, His holiness and His beauty. And the Jewish people was willing to provide many of the things needed for it, at least in the case of the second temple. Did the Jews have to be ashamed of the size and the cost of their temple? I don’t believe so! As for those places you talked against, were they built in the 20th century? Or the 19th? Or the 18th? In denigrating the so-called luxury of them, you speak rather easily, you just repeat old accusations, so often said, without any concern for the people, just seeking to destroy the Catholic Church, And I will tell you another thing…
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Good point! And Jesus drove the market sellers out of the temple stating that they were defiling his Father’s house and making it a den of thieves.

Vickie
 
You chose to bear the name FaithOfAbraham… Why? Don’t you know that you then chose the responsibility that comes with it? If you have Abraham as the father of your faith, then be consequent with yourself and do like Abraham! Where do you see Abraham in the book of Genesis bashing the people around him, even just to answer attacks of other people? He prefered to separate from Loth instead of always bearing the tension building between Loth’s shepherds and his own: he was a man of peace, and I take it he was respected for the stance he took. He still was able to speak his mind to God right in the eyes, so to speak, but always as he would have talked to a very good friend. Such a man as an intercessor between God and the believers I don’t have a problem with. And his searching peaceful solutions is worth being imitated, too… You chose to bear his name, FaithOfABRAHAM. Why don’t you act just like him?
 
I am not finished yet.
FaithOfAbraham, you said you believe in the Bible, yes? Do you believe in Jesus, then? Which one? Jesus according to the Koran? Or Jesus according to the Gospels (and the New Testament)? Or in Jesus, simply, as well in the Gospel as in the New Testament?
 
FaithofAbraham said:
I live in a mission town and its activities are well-documented. Native Americans endured forced conversion and labor at the mission, and also the nasty European diseases. When they tried to escape from it they were killed or held prisoners in the mission. As Native American populations dwindled the Father ordered the military to travel outward and bring in more Native Americans, the Yokut tribe being one. After the Mexicans took over from Spain in the mid 1800s Native Americans were driven off and left with nothing.

This is just one town of many in the world Catholics imposed their own will and sword on, so it’s hypocritical to act like it’s the perfect church of Jesus, it never has been. It’s flawed like all the rest.
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And like I said - the muslims are STILL doing this to people today. They take slaver labor into their countries and abuse them as they will.

So, muslims talk of what our ancestors did and also keep in mind - their ancestors did to only they did it in different countries - and they STILL do it to this very day.

Don’t be fooled by muslims who try to muddy the waters in answering for their own CURRENT slavery happening in muslim countries under sharia law - that same law they want in our country and every country they migrate to.

answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/slavery.htm
 
If you are a believer, you should take seriously Jesus’ own words, shouldn’t you?
Then, you must have read Jesus’ answer to those who asked him if it is O.K. to divorce for any reason? At the end of his answer, he said: "Therefore, don’t let anyone separate what God has joined together (or “united together”) " (Mark 10, 9)
Don’t let anyone separate Christ and his bride, the Church (this is a thread about saint Paul, well somewhere in his letters he calls the Church the bride of the Christ)! You attack the bride, then you attack Christ himself! So then be very careful what you say against the Catholic Church! It might be retained against you at the Last Judgment… That’s all!
 
FaithofAbraham said:
The religion of Isaac and its offshoot Christianity was founded in the bowels of the OT which is filled with violence under Moses, Joshua, Elijah, and others. Then Jesus came along to preach non-violence to Jews.

In the same way the religion of Ishmael will be revised when Jesus returns shortly and all people will be under one Messiah.
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You believe those who believe in the whole of the Koran will willingly let Jesus do just that?
You must know the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. How it ends you remember: Abraham said: “If they don’t listen to Moses and the Prophets, someone could be risen from the dead and yet they still won’t be convinced.”
 
planten said:
The fighting in Islam is prescribed only in few cases, namely:
  1. In defence. i.e. When attacked, the muslims are allowed to fight back. It is surprising that even though jesus never taught such a thing to fight in defence, yet the christians have been fighting every time. Why? Was that not against the teaching of Jesus?
  2. To uphold liberty i.e. to remove any compulsion about the conscience and beliefs. If any people disallow conversion and free thinking then it is incumbant upon the Muslims to wage a war against the oppressors.
  3. When the party to a covenant (agreement) breaks the agreement, it is lawful to fight against them.
There is no other incident or permission in the Quran to wage a war or kill any one. If there is then search the Quran and show it please. You will not find it.
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I am very grateful you bring these precisions. Although… can you expand a little on no. 2? Are you talking only of cases of disallowing conversion to Islam, or does it include disallowing free conversion from Islam to either Judaism or Christianity? or to another religion?
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the -]Pharisees and Sadducees/-] CHRISTIANS come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Matthew 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
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Why did you change “Pharisees and Sadducees” into Christians? A Christian is already baptised and can’t get de-baptised… so the switch can’t be justified!🤷
 
Lapell said:
You believe those who believe in the whole of the Koran will willingly let Jesus do just that?
You must know the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. How it ends you remember: Abraham said: “If they don’t listen to Moses and the Prophets, someone could be risen from the dead and yet they still won’t be convinced.”
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I don’t think they will have a choice do you.
 
Lapell said:
I am very grateful you bring these precisions. Although… can you expand a little on no. 2? Are you talking only of cases of disallowing conversion to Islam, or does it include disallowing free conversion from Islam to either Judaism or Christianity? or to another religion?
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Although the maximum Muslims are limiting this freedom to conversion to Muslims only, i do not agree to them. The Muslim clergy have got many false notions about Islam now. They say that any one can become a muslim but a muslim cannot leave Islam. That is not right at all.

Those Muslim clergy base their arguments on some false Hadith etc. My nett reply is that according to Quran, the freedom of faith and conscience is for all religions. I hope you have understood me.

I do not mind any one running away from Islam. I would let him be in perfect peace. Surely, and I will also be happy and in perfect peace because of that.
 
Lapell said:
Why did you change “Pharisees and Sadducees” into Christians? A Christian is already baptised and can’t get de-baptised… so the switch can’t be justified!🤷
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It means don’t sit back high and mighty claiming Jesus if you aren’t doing all that he said, God can unbaptize you at any time.
 
R_not said:
And like I said - the muslims are STILL doing this to people today. They take slaver labor into their countries and abuse them as they will.

So, muslims talk of what our ancestors did and also keep in mind - their ancestors did to only they did it in different countries - and they STILL do it to this very day.

Don’t be fooled by muslims who try to muddy the waters in answering for their own CURRENT slavery happening in muslim countries under sharia law - that same law they want in our country and every country they migrate to.

answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/slavery.htm
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Since Islam came along 600 years after Christians then it’s only fair to give them that time to catch up to Christian level of civility.
 
Lapell said:
You chose to bear his name, FaithOfABRAHAM. Why don’t you act just like him?
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You want me to kill?

Genesis 14:14 And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.

Genesis 14:15 And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus.
 
Lapell said:
And just how do you KNOW it IS the case, Faithof Abraham? And wasn’t the Temple of Jerusalem something big enough before its destruction?
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God gave the command to build the Temple, who received the command to build the Pope’s palace?
 
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