Saint Paul and Islam

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Lapell said:
But unlike the Catholics, you don’t have a Sacred Tradition with solid teaching along with your Holy Book? How then can you be so sure your interpretation is right according to the spirit of Allah? What tells you THAT?
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Common sense, prayer to God.
 
Booklover said:
Can you explain why Muslims consider Paul’s conversion a sham and yet so readily accept Muhammad’s prophethood as legitimate?

Vickie
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Muslims reject the Christian Bible period because they think it replaced some phantom real Bible hidden from history.

While I accept the Bible, so I don’t defend them.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Muslims reject the Christian Bible period because they think it replaced some phantom real Bible hidden from history.

While I accept the Bible, so I don’t defend them.
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So you’re saying that because they reject the Bible, they don’t believe in Paul’s conversion? 🤷

Vickie
 
Booklover said:
So you’re saying that because they reject the Bible, they don’t believe in Paul’s conversion? 🤷

Vickie
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I suppose if they reject the whole Bible they aren’t going to believe anything about Paul in it. Maybe there are other reasons but that would seem to preclude any of them.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Muslims reject the Christian Bible period because they think it replaced some phantom real Bible hidden from history.

While I accept the Bible, so I don’t defend them.
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I certainly have mistaken you for a Muslim in my last questions, FaithofAbraham! Indeed! That’s a good one! Now, how about going back to the subject from now on?
 
hamba2han said:
In a nutshell, Christianity in its entirety was founded on this “vision” that Paul supposedly had because Prophet Jesus (pbuh) and his early followers certainly did not call themselves Christians.
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This quote was among the first posts. And, can we remind Hamba2han that, no, Christianity wasn’t founded on Paul’s vision. It already had a foundation before: Peter’s declaration that Jesus is the Messiah, and the testimony of the Apostles (even before Paul’s vision, for how could this disciple Ananiah confirm the latter if he hadn’t first knew Jesus, either personally or through the testimony of the Apostles?)
 
I am not satisfied with an answer that would make others scapegoat just because it will emphasized otherwise. Loving thy neighbors is the second most important commandment, and a golden rule taught by Jesus that we should not do unto others what you do not want others do unto you is very much an extreme opposite of what the Quran teaches. How can be Allad merciful if he teaches otherwise. Our Muslim brothers will never understand their scriptures because it would take a miracle for them to understand. Muhammed and his followers made so many mistakes, and compiling their text was not good enough. Muslim scholars are scrambling to explain all the discrepancies and I don’t know why their brothers have a hard time undestsnding them.
 
planten said:
For whatever reason the Pope did that, it is the duty of the Catholics to see to it, to know about it and not to criticise it. Otherwise they will be having more knowledge than the Pope.

He must have had a good idea before kissing the Book of Allah.
]
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He was trying to be kind and accepting.
 
Lapell said:
This quote was among the first posts. And, can we remind Hamba2han that, no, Christianity wasn’t founded on Paul’s vision. It already had a foundation before: Peter’s declaration that Jesus is the Messiah, and the testimony of the Apostles (even before Paul’s vision, for how could this disciple Ananiah confirm the latter if he hadn’t first knew Jesus, either personally or through the testimony of the Apostles?)
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I don’t really know where this is coming from. St. Paul did not start Christianity. He helped it along quite a bit and helped it start. However he did not start it. St. Paul is also in agreement with all the other New Testament authors so therefore he didn’t “create” anything new.
 
Lapell said:
Yes, these are great help indeed. Even then, at times our senses can fool us, isn’t it true?
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Why should I trust anyone else’s senses more than my own, maybe they are fooled as well.
 
Lapell said:
I certainly have mistaken you for a Muslim in my last questions, FaithofAbraham! Indeed! That’s a good one! Now, how about going back to the subject from now on?
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That was last week’s subject Booklover replied to.
 
holdencaulfield said:
I don’t really know where this is coming from. St. Paul did not start Christianity. He helped it along quite a bit and helped it start. However he did not start it. St. Paul is also in agreement with all the other New Testament authors so therefore he didn’t “create” anything new.
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The subject has been beaten to death.

Muslims are at a loss of how to reconcile that Mohmmad was not in the picture at all when they look into the NT. Mohammad got bits and pieces from Christian heretics about the Bible and did not know what the real Gospels were. He was told that Jesus wrote a Gospel and this he taught to the Muslims. So later day Muslims got a surprise at hand. The only thing to do was to circumscribe this, and deny Paul. In fact they are denying all Jesus apostles including writers of the NT. Mohammad did not know about the apostles. What a creep!
 
Reuben_J said:
Mohammad did not know about the apostles. What a creep!
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Sure he did.

Quran 61:14 O ye who believe! Be Allah’s helpers, even as Jesus son of Mary said unto the disciples: Who are my helpers for Allah? They said: We are Allah’s helpers. And a party of the Children of Israel believed, while a party disbelieved. Then We strengthened those who believed against their foe, and they became the uppermost.

Is the last prophet before John the Baptist, Malachi, ever mentioned in the NT?
 
Reuben_J said:
The subject has been beaten to death.

Muslims are at a loss of how to reconcile that Mohmmad was not in the picture at all when they look into the NT. Mohammad got bits and pieces from Christian heretics about the Bible and did not know what the real Gospels were. He was told that Jesus wrote a Gospel and this he taught to the Muslims. So later day Muslims got a surprise at hand. The only thing to do was to circumscribe this, and deny Paul. In fact they are denying all Jesus apostles including writers of the NT. Mohammad did not know about the apostles. What a creep!
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Quite true. I don’t think anymore arguments would pertain to this discussion.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Sure he did.

Quran 61:14 O ye who believe! Be Allah’s helpers, even as Jesus son of Mary said unto the disciples: Who are my helpers for Allah? They said: We are Allah’s helpers. And a party of the Children of Israel believed, while a party disbelieved. Then We strengthened those who believed against their foe, and they became the uppermost.
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Any follower of Christ is called a disciple at the time. Apostles were something different. You must concede to the point however that Muhammad had a distorted view of Christianity.
Is the last prophet before John the Baptist, Malachi, ever mentioned in the NT?
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I don’t think so, however how does this pertain to the topic?
 
holdencaulfield said:
Any follower of Christ is called a disciple at the time. Apostles were something different. You must concede to the point however that Muhammad had a distorted view of Christianity.

I don’t think so, however how does this pertain to the topic?
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There’s no difference, the Quran acknowledges Jesus had followers. The NT doesn’t repeat every single thing from the OT, why is that expected from the Quran?

Since Reuben thinks it’s a big problem Paul isn’t mentioned in the Quran, I thought I’d ask if it is a big problem that the very last prophet of the OT isn’t mentioned in the NT.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
There’s no difference, the Quran acknowledges Jesus had followers. The NT doesn’t repeat every single thing from the OT, why is that expected from the Quran?

Since Reuben thinks it’s a big problem Paul isn’t mentioned in the Quran, I thought I’d ask if it is a big problem that the very last prophet of the OT isn’t mentioned in the NT.
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I don’t see it as one.
 
holdencaulfield said:
I don’t see it as one.
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I see it all bashing of the Quran on the same issues apparent in the Bible, like not repeating every detail (Paul/Malachi) or violence (Joshua for Isaac’s promise/Mohammed for Ishmael’s promise) as a hypocritical double standard that lacks a good deal of honesty one might expect from those who suppose themselves to be Christians following after Jesus.

I am a lot of things but I don’t go after cheap shots and dishonest tactics while debating.

And, the hypocrisy also goes to Christians try to force Hadith on me yet I don’t force apocrypha on them. Hatred of Islam is causing some here to be lousy Christians in my opinion.

Some need to step off and take a reality check.
 
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