Saint's relic with miraculous tendencies does it again for Pope Francis [CNA]

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without said:
The theory is that this that there is no supernatural… so far when examining claims like these 100% of the time they turn out to have a natural explanation (like the theory of gravity… the ball drops every time), but like all theories it can be disproved.

The request is to let science examine and verify these claims… **if the church was able to have a single verified supernatural event a lot of non-believers would reconsider (can you imagine the press coverage for an actual well studied and proven miracle?). **

Unfortunately, every time a supposed supernatural event is examined, a natural explanation or a trick is found to be the cause.

What do you support? Should the church open up all of these claims to actual physical examination and science, or should the church hide them behind a curtain and everyone must just believe?

Don’t you want these things proven true? :yup:
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There are many miracles that have been evaluated by medical science with no known explanation as to why the person was healed
…of course atheists will say that medical science just hasn’t found a rational scientific explanation at this point in time…same for the quote in bold…the church has many miracles that have been evaluated and confirmed as miracles…but that doesn’t appease athiests because they don’t believe in miracles so why should the church listen to those who don’t believe anyway…and why should they suddenly believe… if…as they say…a miracle was proven…no they wouldn’t even then…because…(excuse my repeating myself)…they don’t believe in miracles…period…atheists are not even skeptics because they reject any mention of the supernatural
 
Peebo said:
There are many miracles that have been evaluated by medical science with no known explanation as to why the person was healed
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Can you provide a single modern example of an amputee growing back an arm or leg? :confused: Cause that would be very cool! Or are miracles only able to be invisible changes?
 
without said:
Unfortunately, every time a supposed supernatural event is examined, a natural explanation or a trick is found to be the cause.
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Every time? You’d best get busy, you have a LOT of proof to post here. No worries, we’ll wait.

:compcoff:
 
MODERATOR NOTICE

This thread has wandered off topic to debating if miracles exist. There is a thread in the Apologetics forum already on the topic, here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=687840

Please move that debate there or to another thread in Apologetics.

Questions about the faith are best addressed in that forum.

Thank you for your cooperation
 
without said:
Can you provide a single modern example of an amputee growing back an arm or leg? :confused: Cause that would be very cool! Or are miracles only able to be invisible changes?
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Even Jesus Christ didn’t perform miracles growing back arms…legs…toes…fingers…heads or whatever…he did raise Lazarus from the dead…but I’m sure atheists regard that as a fable…there are plenty of medical miracles where tumors or other medical conditions have disappeared without explanation…other than through prayer…but like I said in my previous post atheists deny that by claiming there’s a rational explanation waiting for science to explain…to quote Thomas Aquinas…“to one who has faith no explanation is necessary…to one without faith no explanation is possible”…the church goes through a thorough and exhaustive examination before ever declaring something a miracle…and not all are accepted as miraculous…unlike atheists who claim nothing is miraculous…or supernatural
 
Peebo said:
Even Jesus Christ didn’t perform miracles growing back arms…legs…toes…fingers…heads or whatever…
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Actually, you’re incorrect here. On the night Jesus was arrested, Peter lashed out at one of the men accompanying his arresters and sliced off his ear. Jesus healed and regenerated the man’s ear.

Back to the topic… how can a miracle be proven or disproven if we can’t examine the vial of blood?
 
I don’t want to put a damper on the discussion of this “miracle”. However, I think it’s important to note that St. Januarius was a martyr and that no recent Pope has had this liquefaction occur. This event has occurred, according to news sources, many times over the centuries; thus, making it not particularly rare. However, Pope Francis has noted that he doesn’t believe he’ll have a long papacy and there have been reports of plots from ISIS and others to assassinate him. This makes me believe that this liquefaction could be an omen or sign. I hope I’m wrong but there have been numerous approved prophecies about a Pope that would be sent into exile and martyred. Granted, this could all be circumstantial evidence but I believe this “event” may be more prophetic than any of us realize.
 
Cruciferi said:
I don’t want to put a damper on the discussion of this “miracle”. However, I think it’s important to note that St. Januarius was a martyr and that no recent Pope has had this liquefaction occur. This event has occurred, according to news sources, many times over the centuries; thus, making it not particularly rare. However, Pope Francis has noted that he doesn’t believe he’ll have a long papacy and there have been reports of plots from ISIS and others to assassinate him. This makes me believe that this liquefaction could be an omen or sign. I hope I’m wrong but there have been numerous approved prophecies about a Pope that would be sent into exile and martyred. Granted, this could all be circumstantial evidence but I believe this “event” may be more prophetic than any of us realize.
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I am more inclined to think that the liquefying of the blood is a good sign- a sign of God’s blessing. And since, initially only half of the blood liquefied, and as Pope Francis said, we have a lot more praying to do. And then it all liquefied before returning it to the altar. We would probably also have to concider who the Pope was speaking to at the time. But I would have to go back and read more about the history of this miracle taking place.
 
without said:
Can you provide a single modern example of an amputee growing back an arm or leg? :confused: Cause that would be very cool! Or are miracles only able to be invisible changes?
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It must be deduced from what you have posted thus far on this topic that you insist that there is not now, nor has there ever been , such things which must be categorized as “unexplained phenomena”.

Therefore, we must take this perspective into account when we determine whether,or not, to take your demands seriously.

Respectfully, I do not.
 
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