Saints whose bodies are incorrupt after buried... for centuries

[Radical]

continuing

With respect to Schiffer and the others having but a few minor injuries here is an account from one of the Jesuit survivors (Father Siemes, who was at the outskirts of the city when the bomb fell) Siemes

…What became of Father Superior and the three other Fathers who were at the center of the city at the Central Mission and Parish House?..At the far corner of the park, on the river bank itself, we at last come upon our colleagues. Father Schiffer is on the ground pale as a ghost. He has a deep incised wound behind the ear and has lost so much blood that we are concerned about his chances for survival. The Father Superior has suffered a deep wound of the lower leg. Father Cieslik and Father Kleinsorge have minor injuries but are completely exhausted…Father Schiffer was buried beneath a portion of a wall and suffered a severe head injury. The Father Superior received most of the splinters in his back and lower extremity from which he bled copiously. Everything was thrown about in the rooms themselves, but the wooden framework of the house remained intact. The solidity of the structure which was the work of Brother Gropper again shone forth.
.

John Hersey wrote a piece for the New Yorker which is briefly described here which provides information of a Father Kleinsorge.
Regarding Kleinsorge, Hersey reports that he falls prey to radiation sickness and becomes weak and tired, often requiring lengthy hospital stays.

I trust that the above should be sufficient to give you a good feel as to how the claims of the miraculous diverge seriously from the reality.

 

[1234]

continuing

With respect to Schiffer and the others having but a few minor injuries here is an account from one of the Jesuit survivors (Father Siemes, who was at the outskirts of the city when the bomb fell) Siemes

…What became of Father Superior and the three other Fathers who were at the center of the city at the Central Mission and Parish House?..At the far corner of the park, on the river bank itself, we at last come upon our colleagues. Father Schiffer is on the ground pale as a ghost. He has a deep incised wound behind the ear and has lost so much blood that we are concerned about his chances for survival. The Father Superior has suffered a deep wound of the lower leg. Father Cieslik and Father Kleinsorge have minor injuries but are completely exhausted…Father Schiffer was buried beneath a portion of a wall and suffered a severe head injury. The Father Superior received most of the splinters in his back and lower extremity from which he bled copiously. Everything was thrown about in the rooms themselves, but the wooden framework of the house remained intact. The solidity of the structure which was the work of Brother Gropper again shone forth.
.

John Hersey wrote a piece for the New Yorker which is briefly described here which provides information of a Father Kleinsorge.
Regarding Kleinsorge, Hersey reports that he falls prey to radiation sickness and becomes weak and tired, often requiring lengthy hospital stays.

I trust that the above should be sufficient to give you a good feel as to how the claims of the miraculous diverge seriously from the reality.

On the face of it, I would suspect, as the evidence suggests, that the structures the Jesuits occupied were far sturdier than the typical Japanese building or home. The Jesuits were mostly from Europe and the US and probably built to last–the Japanese homes were notoriously flimsy with partitions between rooms, for ex, not weight-bearing walls.

Getting back to allegations of incorruptibility, the RCC stands to gain nothing by tolerating, promoting or tacitly condoning false assumptions about the integrity of the corpses it displays. The implication of the corpse of a saint devoutly displayed in an elaborately decorated glass coffin is that the corpse is incorrupt, has undergone no intervention to retard its spoilage, and that you are looking at the actual unretouched person. There is probably no mention of wax masks, silicone masks, or that the saint’s bones are actually behind or beneath what is actually an effigy, or even are incomplete and not all there at all. To suggest incorruptibility in these circumstances is to condone a lie.

 

[Pieman333272]

About Buddhist Incorruptibility - that is usually done differentially as the Monk goes through certain intentional procedures whilst he is still alive but nearing death, such as meditating next to smoking candles and minimal eating. If this was already stated, sorry .

 

[1234]

About Buddhist Incorruptibility - that is usually done differentially as the Monk goes through certain intentional procedures whilst he is still alive but nearing death, such as meditating next to smoking candles and minimal eating. If this was already stated, sorry .

Correct. I think that you ae thinking of some Japanese Buddhist (?) leaders who have initiatiated extreme fasting in their last years in order to mummify upon death. These attempts completely violate the spirit of the Buddha.

However, what they attempted is what especially the early Italian female nun saints and others—Bernadette- achieved through long suffering–Bernadette, fasting, long vigils, that is starvation and emaciation–with the same result, mummification.

Here’s the Japanese mummy:

shugendo.fr/mummies.html

Here’s St. Catharine:

catholicapologetics.info/library/gallery/incorrupt/incorrupt.htm#Bologna

 

[1234]

I received my hardback copy of **“Looking for A Miracle…” **by J. Nickell, and found the topic of ‘incorruptible’ bodies informative, especially as he describes the handling of the individual bodies of the saints, one by one. For example, it turns out that the hands of St. Catherine Laboure were removed and placed in a reliquary and replaced by wax effigies. There are interested sections on many phenomena in pentecostal and evangelical traditions as well as Catholic. It’s a good and quick read, and cheap, $4.00 including shipping for a hardback, thru amazon.

Nickell, J.,** Looking For A Miracle: Weeping Icons, Relics, Stigmata, Visions and Healing Cures** (Prometheus Books, 1993). Available for under $4.00 including shipping under bookfinder.com.

 

[bearcat101]

But on an almost daily basis Catholics in here set out to discredit and deligitimize people like Anglicans claiming they have an invalid priesthood despite the Utrecht consecrations (the Dutch Touch) and have no valid sacraments. I detailed a Eucharistic miracle that my own Anglican bishop experienced where he actually met and saw Christ Himself. It changed his life and he actually took a vow of celibacy over the experience. I’ve heard him speak of it on more than one occasion. He spoke with me about it about a month ago, almost in tears with an ear to ear smile of joy. He’s been on fire for Christ for 40 plus years because of it. When I told this story a day or two ago, an ardent Catholic poster (and anti-Anglican hardcore) said that the devil created a false vision and my bishop was really encountering a diabolical phenomenon, not Christ. It goes both ways, Fireman. People all over here, Catholic and Protestant and Orthodox, try to discredit each other’s visions, experiences, history, theology, dogma, and faith. It’s a bummer…for both sides!

It could just as easily be said that the aparitions of Mary are really evil displays from Satan himself attempting to lead the Catholic faithful astray. I mean really, it goes both ways.