Saints with SSA

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Why would anyone think that St John Henry Newman had same sex attraction?

His friendship with Fr Ambrose St. John, which is the only possibility such accusations have to go on, was simply a friendship between males. In many cultures, close friendships and even romantic language are seen as normal ways to talk between males.

If he had been such a close friend of this priest because it was romantic, or because he was attracted to him, then that would be to say that St Newman was not a saint after all. Which is obviously false, as he is.

There is no evidence to suggest he had same sex attraction - he had a relationship with a male that was seen as completely normal at the time (because male friendships were often very close at that time and it had nothing to do with sexuality) and was clearly not at all romantic.
 
Weave said:
No, not “almost certainly” there is no evidence to support that outrageous claim.
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I can’t comment on the question of evidence, but why would it be outrageous to suggest that one or more saints experienced SSA? Or did you simply mean the claim is outrageous given that there is no objective evidence?
 
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It was not suggested that they were anything more than friends. The possibility does exist, however, that Saint Newman had feelings of some sort. We will never truly know, though, and it does make me rather uncomfortable to talk about someone in the next life in this speculatory manner.
 
It makes me uncomfortable as well because I know he was a faithful Catholic who loved the Church and always remained faithful to it.

I believe there is no evidence he had same sex attraction.
 
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I’ve read quite a bit of the literature about Saint Newman, and I’m fairly familiar with the Oxford Movement as I was previously an Anglo-Catholic.

In my mind and on the basis of the available evidence, I think it’s unlikely that he was SSA. I think my primary issue is that it’s highly anachronistic to project modern concepts about SSA and same-sex relationships to a person who wasn’t even alive when the word “homosexuality” was first used in English.

That being said, I think it’s abundantly clear that he had several powerful, lifelong and committed friendships with men. Such friendships have often raised an eyebrow amongst modern men, but were quite par for the course amongst Victorian men.

Perhaps something intangible and important amongst same-sex friendships has been lost through the generations? I’m quite often surprised when I read of men in Newman’s age - gruff, angry men - coming together in pairs to read poetry to one another. But this is probably more of an indictment of my own perception of the normal same-sex friendship involving drinking beer and watching the telly.

With that in mind, I see no issue with modern day SSA Catholics praying to Saint Newman for mastery over their own temptations and to model their lives after his.
 
halogirl said:
Ok, in my opinion and from everything I’ve read about him I would not be at all surprised if he had this struggle. It’s actually ok if he did, he led a holy and exemplary life. There is nothing wrong with saints having SSA if they did
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Well and good: but there is something wrong with asserting that someone has SSA if you have no solid evidence that they did.
HomeschoolDad said:
Our modern society screams bloody murder if someone has a sexual inclination, yet cannot act this out physically — “every itch must be scratched”.
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Including imaginary itches. Transgenderism.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
Our modern society screams bloody murder if someone has a sexual inclination, yet cannot act this out physically — “every itch must be scratched”.
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In their defense, many (if not most) transgender persons sincerely, to the bottom of their heart, mind, and soul, think that they are the opposite gender, and that it was a mistake for their physical structure to be that of the wrong sex. It’s not “imaginary” to them.

No one reading this should think that I am condoning reassignment surgery or administration of drugs to “change one’s gender”. I can’t imagine what it would be like to be in those circumstances. But at the same time, I have a very hard time believing that X percent of people have always had these urges, but have gone ahead and lived according to their physical gender because society expected it.

People have just gone crazy anymore. I even have to wonder if it’s some of this garbage that is getting into the food, water, and/or environment.
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catholic03 said:
If he had been such a close friend of this priest because it was romantic, or because he was attracted to him, then that would be to say that St Newman was not a saint after all.
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This is wrong. There are plenty of saints who had strong temptations or inclinations, which they resisted. They aren’t somehow “not saints” because they were tempted or inclined to sin but did not do so. Raather, their having resisted makes them greater saints and good models for others struggling with temptation.

It’s not sinful to have SSA. It’s only sinful to act on it.
 
FiveLinden said:
There are very, very, few married male saints who were not martyrs or kings.
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That’s not true. There are plenty of male saints who were married at some point in their life. No shortage whatsoever. Many of them, like many female lay saints, became more deeply religious after their spouse died. Some of them were religious through their entire lives. And they were not all “kings”, many of them had various levels of jobs.
 
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Bithynian said:
Perhaps something intangible and important amongst same-sex friendships has been lost through the generations? I’m quite often surprised when I read of men in Newman’s age - gruff, angry men - coming together in pairs to read poetry to one another.
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You are spot on, and I firmly believe that this is one of the primary reasons that we see so many young people with transient sexual identities. These days, we are lead to believe that any sort of close and intimate same-sex friendships necessarily lead to sexual intimacy. On the contrary, truly close friends should love each other deeply and develop a deep sense of emotional intimacy. It’s completely healthy human behavior.
 
I have a lifelong best friend. We refer to each other as soulmates. An intimate, same sex, chaste friendship.

We have not asked to be buried in the same grave.
 
In his lifetime, there was talk of his possible SSA. However we have no reason to believe he acted on it (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Tis_Bearself said:
That’s not true. There are plenty of male saints who were married at some point in their life. No shortage whatsoever. Many of them, like many female lay saints, became more deeply religious after their spouse died. Some of them were religious through their entire lives. And they were not all “kings”, many of them had various levels of jobs
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OK, I’ll change my comment to say: ‘There are very, very few married male saints who were married and had not committed to celibacy at the time of their deaths, other than some martyrs and kings or similarly high-ranking people’.
 
I suppose you could say that. Sometimes they committed to celibacy well before their deaths, such as if their spouse predeceased them or if they had agreed with their spouse to have a Josephite marriage.

There’s a lot we don’t know about temptations faced by saints in past centuries, in many cases because of a lack of records written by the saint himself as opposed to someone writing his biography after death.
 
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