Salvation by works alone?

[Qoeleth]

As a thorough Catholic, I have always instinctively assumed salvation and damnation come down to weighing up what you do- i.e. that judgment is based entirely on our deeds. There are many Scriptures which support this: “He will reward each according to his deeds.” And the classic is the final judgment in Matthew 25, where whether you go to Heaven or Hell depends upon how you treat Christ in the hungry, the thirsty, the stranger, the sick, the imprisoned. Also, in the Matthew’s Sermon on the Mount, “It is not those who say ‘Lord, Lord’, but those who do the will of my Father.”

I suppose I address this question primarily to Protestants, and Catholics who are inclined to answer- what do you think is wrong with the doctrine of slavation by works?

And how can anyone say they are “saved” until they have faced final judgment? Whether we are saved or not depends upon what we do- Jesus gave us the new Law- but our deeds are what merit either salvation or damnation.

 

[inzoozfab]

I would say right now that one is saved when their heart is turned toward God and away from their sin. When a person’s greatest desire is to know God intimately and serve Him. It’s a change of heart.

Salvation of works is plain wrong. Doesn’t Galatians show that?

 

[fermat]

Nowhere does the Church ever say that salvation by works is possible. As Paul says in Ephesians 2:8-10:

For by **grace **you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;
it is not from works, so no one may boast. For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the **good works **that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them.

Grace is the gift. We reciprocate by showing faith and doing the works laid out for us by God. You can’t be saved with works alone or faith alone. It’s a package.

 

[Pitcharan]

I would say right now that one is saved when their heart is turned toward God and away from their sin. When a person’s greatest desire is to know God intimately and serve Him. It’s a change of heart. Salvation of works is plain wrong. Doesn’t Galatians show that?

Change of heart has to be proven by bearing good fruits.

 

[inzoozfab]

I agree. Evidence of salvation must be good works done out of love.

 

[SMA_12]

Whenever you hear anyone say you are saved by “fill in the blank alone” be very weary.

 

[Church_Militant]

The Catholic Church has never, does not now, and never will teach this. The Church teaches that faith without works is dead and that dead faith will not save anyone . (See James 2:14-26)

Matthew 25:31-46 is also very clear on this.

 

[THE_ENCORE]

As a thorough Catholic, I have always instinctively assumed salvation and damnation come down to weighing up what you do- i.e. that judgment is based entirely on our deeds. There are many Scriptures which support this: “He will reward each according to his deeds.” And the classic is the final judgment in Matthew 25, where whether you go to Heaven or Hell depends upon how you treat Christ in the hungry, the thirsty, the stranger, the sick, the imprisoned. Also, in the Matthew’s Sermon on the Mount, “It is not those who say ‘Lord, Lord’, but those who do the will of my Father.”

I suppose I address this question primarily to Protestants, and Catholics who are inclined to answer- what do you think is wrong with the doctrine of slavation by works?

And how can anyone say they are “saved” until they have faced final judgment? Whether we are saved or not depends upon what we do- Jesus gave us the new Law- but our deeds are what merit either salvation or damnation.

You could not be more wrong on this. First to understand how we are saved we must understand what salvation is. Salvation in Catholic theology is not just not going to hell, its growing closer to god, so how do we do this? We do this from Grace through faith for good works, what does this means? This means that without works, we have no faith, and without faith, are works are useless, in Biblical terms faith and works go hand in hand, if you don’t have works, you don’t have faith, and if you don’t have faith, you do don’t have works. So, know that we know works does not save us and faith without works is dead, so therefore we are saved by grace through faith for good works, what does it mean when you are asked “are you saved”? You answer like this, I was saved, 2000 years ago by Jesus’s sacrifice in faith, I am being saved by the grace of god, through faith and the sacraments of the church, and I will be saved if I endure to the end. This is the correct way to answer this question, because salvation is talked about in past, present and future in the bible, because salvation is a lifelong process. So, when you think of salvation think of it as you becoming growing closer to god and god growing closer to you, don’t think of it as you escaping hell, because this ideology isn’t correct.

So all in all, the Catholic viewpoint is this, We are saved by grace through faith for good works. Also think of salvation as a lifelong process and not a one time because salvation is a lifelong process. . It is IMPOSSIBLE to be saved by works alone, as works done without faith are done in pride and vainity not in glory of god.

 

[WorkerPriest]

Yep-- and here Lutherans in their Confessions agree. We would say that works are necessary; particularly as a fruit of saving faith. Hence our teaching on the Christian’s life of faith and repentance, use of the means of grace (including Confession and Absolution,) that we remain in a state of grace… which is a state of living faith working in love of God and neighbor.

The Reformation issue is really a cart and horse thing… and they were very keen to ensure they articulated works following faith in the justified Christian, so as to avoid all charges of Pelagianism. And for Lutherans, that’s not surprising, since we are formed with a great deal of Augustinian influence.

Peace be with you.

Nowhere does the Church ever say that salvation by works is possible. As Paul says in Ephesians 2:8-10:

For by **grace **you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;
it is not from works, so no one may boast. For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the **good works **that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them.

Grace is the gift. We reciprocate by showing faith and doing the works laid out for us by God. You can’t be saved with works alone or faith alone. It’s a package.

 

[jpjd]

To the OP, if we were saved by works alone, then we would not need Christ. What would be the point of having a Church, Mass, and faith, if you could save yourself?

 

[JRKH]

As a thorough Catholic, I have always instinctively assumed salvation and damnation come down to weighing up what you do- i.e. that judgment is based entirely on our deeds. There are many Scriptures which support this: “He will reward each according to his deeds.” And the classic is the final judgment in Matthew 25, where whether you go to Heaven or Hell depends upon how you treat Christ in the hungry, the thirsty, the stranger, the sick, the imprisoned. Also, in the Matthew’s Sermon on the Mount, “It is not those who say ‘Lord, Lord’, but those who do the will of my Father.”

I suppose I address this question primarily to Protestants, and Catholics who are inclined to answer- what do you think is wrong with the doctrine of slavation by works?

As others have pointed out - what is wrong with “the doctrine of salvation by works”, is that there is no such doctrine…I know of no Christian group that teaches such a thing…

That said, we DO see works as necessary evidence of a saving faith - a faith that is rooted in Love. But this “evidence” is for our own benefit and the benefit of each other, not for God’s benefit since He knows our heart and it is our heart by which we will be judged.

The problem with saying “Salvation by works” is that it creates a problem, actually several problems…
First is the classic, what if someone converts and immediately dies. They have no works and therefore are not saved (under salvation by works)
Second is the person who does all the works yet denies God (a charitable atheist?) They have works but no faith…Are they save by their works??
Third is the person who claims to believe but remains in sin - performing just enough “good works” to (they believe) get into heaven…But their heart is far from God. Such ones are like, as Jesus called the pharisees, “whitewashed sepulchers”.

You can readily see how each of the above is not a true reflection of what we mean by Salvation.

And how can anyone say they are “saved” until they have faced final judgment? Whether we are saved or not depends upon what we do- Jesus gave us the new Law- but our deeds are what merit either salvation or damnation.

Indeed - no one can know for sure whether they are saved until judgement. And yet we can be confident of our salvation IF we have a true heart, a heart pointed toward and living for Christ. A heart that reflects Christ to the world. Such a heart will, without counting or placing any value in them, pour out works of mercy upon the world - just as Christ poured out Himself upon us.

Peace
James

 

[rfournier103]

I agree. Evidence of salvation must be good works done out of love.

Whenever you hear anyone say you are saved by “fill in the blank alone” be very weary.

I agree 100% with the above. I am quite certain that NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that “good works alone” will save you/get you to Heaven, etc… Just as NOWHERE in the Bible does it say “faith alone” will save you/get you to Heaven, etc…

Take a good look at James 2:14-26. That should clear it up for the “faith alone” and “works alone” crowds, respectively.

I like James because it is pretty straight-forward and easy to interpret. I also think it is underappreciated and undervalued by many. Just my opinion.

 

[Gamera]

Twice the Catholic Church has condemned “salvation by works” as heresy (Pelagianism and Semi-Pelagianism).

God does reward good works. But it is only by God’s grace that we are able to do good works in the first place. “Whatever good works we do are deserving of reward, not through any merit anterior to grace; their performance, rather, is due to a prior gift of grace to which we have no claim.” (Second Council of Orange, 529 AD).

 

[WorkerPriest]

Indeed. And I think it is worth noting that among the good things achieved with the Joint Declaration of the Doctrine of Justification between Romans and Lutherans, were:

– When Lutherans say “faith alone,” we mean a saving faith that works in love; never simply a rational assent or understanding-- we believe St. James, just as much as we believe St. Paul.

– When Romans say “faith and works,” they mean a saving faith that works in love; not works which themselves save without faith, or works that precipitate saving faith.

Charitably understood, this Reformation era debate is really settled, and on pretty good terms. Rome no longer perceives the Lutheran position as heretical on this topic, and Lutherans no longer perceive Rome as semi-Pelagian.

Good stuff.

Twice the Catholic Church has condemned “salvation by works” as heresy (Pelagianism and Semi-Pelagianism).

God does reward good works. But it is only by God’s grace that we are able to do good works in the first place. “Whatever good works we do are deserving of reward, not through any merit anterior to grace; their performance, rather, is due to a prior gift of grace to which we have no claim.” (Second Council of Orange, 529 AD).

 

[vwtaylorii]

And how can anyone say they are “saved” until they have faced final judgment? Whether we are saved or not depends upon what we do- Jesus gave us the new Law- but our deeds are what merit either salvation or damnation.

Everybody address the first question, but it seems very little is being concentrated by the second.

As Catholics, we believe being saved has a past, present, and future.

We believed we were saved when we received baptism (our initial justification). As we live our lives in Christ, we are contuing being saved because we are continuously receiving grace and becoming more sanctified (habitual justification). If we died in a state of grace, we will be saved once we enter into Heaven with God.

 

[Deconi]

You could not be more wrong on this. First to understand how we are saved we must understand what salvation is. Salvation in Catholic theology is not just not going to hell, its growing closer to god, so how do we do this? We do this from Grace through faith for good works, what does this means? This means that without works, we have no faith, and without faith, are works are useless, in Biblical terms faith and works go hand in hand, if you don’t have works, you don’t have faith, and if you don’t have faith, you do don’t have works. So, know that we know works does not save us and faith without works is dead, so therefore we are saved by grace through faith for good works, what does it mean when you are asked “are you saved”? You answer like this, I was saved, 2000 years ago by Jesus’s sacrifice in faith, I am being saved by the grace of god, through faith and the sacraments of the church, and I will be saved if I endure to the end. This is the correct way to answer this question, because salvation is talked about in past, present and future in the bible, because salvation is a lifelong process. So, when you think of salvation think of it as you becoming growing closer to god and god growing closer to you, don’t think of it as you escaping hell, because this ideology isn’t correct.

So all in all, the Catholic viewpoint is this, We are saved by grace through faith for good works. Also think of salvation as a lifelong process and not a one time because salvation is a lifelong process. . It is IMPOSSIBLE to be saved by works alone, as works done without faith are done in pride and vainity not in glory of god.

The closest to perfect answer on the subject!

 

[Qoeleth]

We are saved “in Christ” and “through Christ” (who showed us the Way to be saved), but, is it not OUR deeds which are placed in the scale on the Day of Judgment? I suppose we are saved by the Grace of God (in the sense that he has gifted us with clear commandments of what to do and not to do), but the action itself is from us. “I have placed fire and water before you, reach out to whatever you prefer.”

“For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to his deeds.” Matthew 16-27

Salvation by grace, in a sense that the example and Gospel of Christ, and the Law, is a grace. But whether we accept the road to salvation seems to depend upon what we do- for “faith without works is dead.”

 

[snarflemike]

I agree. Evidence of salvation must be good works done out of love.

What do you mean, “must be”?

 

[agapedoulos]

As a thorough Catholic, I have always instinctively assumed salvation and damnation come down to weighing up what you do- i.e. that judgment is based entirely on our deeds. There are many Scriptures which support this: “He will reward each according to his deeds.” And the classic is the final judgment in Matthew 25, where whether you go to Heaven or Hell depends upon how you treat Christ in the hungry, the thirsty, the stranger, the sick, the imprisoned. Also, in the Matthew’s Sermon on the Mount, “It is not those who say ‘Lord, Lord’, but those who do the will of my Father.”

I suppose I address this question primarily to Protestants, and Catholics who are inclined to answer- what do you think is wrong with the doctrine of slavation by works?

And how can anyone say they are “saved” until they have faced final judgment? Whether we are saved or not depends upon what we do- Jesus gave us the new Law- but our deeds are what merit either salvation or damnation.

What is wrong with salvation by works is that if we could be saved by our works of righteousness, then why did Jesus have to die? Also, salvation by works would require a minimum amount of works to be saved…who knows how much is enough? Where are we told that in the Bible? Most importantly is the Bible itself declares we cannot be saved by our works:
Romans 3:23 declares that “all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God”. There is none righteous no not one. Ephesians 2:8, 9; Romans 3:20, 28; Galatians 2:16 and James 2:24; Matthew 19:16-21
1.Saved by grace A.(Ephesians 2:8-9) - “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast.”
B.(Rom. 3:20, 28) - “because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin…For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.”
C.(Galatians 2:16) - “nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.”

2.Saved by works A.(James 2:24) - “You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone.”
B.(Matthew 19:16-17) - "And behold, one came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Question 2: How do I know that I am saved? Jesus said so: “I tell you the truth, those who listen to my mesage and believe in God who sent me HAVE eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have ALREADY passed from death to life” John 5:24
Also John 1:12 “as many as recieved Him he have power to become sons of God”. As I son I have been given the Holy Spirit to reside in me as proof on sonship. Jesus said that if “anyone love Me, he will keep my WORD; and My Father will love him; and We will come to hime and make Our abode with them. He who does not love me will not keep my word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me” John 14:23
Because Jesus so loved me (you and all of us), he sent His only son to the world that none should perish but have eternal life (John 3:16). Because I have believed and recieved his love I in turn love him (commandment one) and my desire is to serve Him for his great mercy and love. Works are a sign of the love we have for God (John 14:23). We are pleased to be his willing slaves not for my salvation because He has already granted it, but for the love I have for Him. Every breath I take and every thought I willingly submit to God for his use so because I love Him. Because I love Him it is my great joy to obey and keep his Word.

I think we both desire to do good works but the difference is that I as a non-catholic simpy do it as a fruit of the Spirit that resides in me, with great joy not for salvation. I actually love Him because of the fact that while I was yet a sinner (enemy no good works), Christ died for me, the ungodly. It is his mercy that causes my love and surrender. Good works are simply a reasonable response to His great love. “I urge you brothers, in view of God’s mercy, offer your bodies a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God, this is your spiritual act of worship” Rom 12:1

Peace and love to you! Read the scriptures so that you can find better answers that the ones given here.

Agape!

 

[agapedoulos]

I would say right now that one is saved when their heart is turned toward God and away from their sin. When a person’s greatest desire is to know God intimately and serve Him. It’s a change of heart.

Salvation of works is plain wrong. Doesn’t Galatians show that?

I agree with you Galatians does show that!