Salvation can be lost

[NotWorthy]

The only nexus is that they appear in the same chapter…The text does not indicate that this parable was in response to the Pharisees any more than the following one. The first two are addressed to them - the first directly, and the second linked by “or”, indicating a continuation. That the ‘prodigal son’ is addressed to the disciples is indicated by the ‘also’ of ch16, v.1. Think outside the box!

Brother, they are all the exact same theme. Salvation lost. Salvation regained. Joy and Feasting.

And I find it ironic that you first told me that if the Church Fathers didn’t teach it, then it ain’t worth learning (paraphrasing), but now you’re telling me to think outside the box.

 

[Des]

I based my assumption on the posts on these pages. Someone gave the example of the Prdofigal Son as an example of loosing and regining their salvation; so it you take that out to the end, then as I said, you can choses to lose, gain, lose & gain and enjoy the sin in between.

Hmm, I’d assume you believe you’re an elect of Heaven who knows you’re saved correct? You’re one of the few as you put it. So how does it feel to be an elect yet sin? Where your sin is no greater an no less (since all sin is the same in protestant eyes) than the sin of fornication, murder, adultery etc. Seems you’re in quite the predicament doesn’t it. Kind of like slapping God in the face again and again while shouting out loud you’re saved and part of His elect. The hypocrisy is almost too unbreable to even comprehend.

Anyway, basically you’re ‘enjoying’ your sin while you’re saved rather than one ‘enjoying’ your sin while lost. Your own personal dogma of OSAS is very eye rolling to me.

 

[dtg]

Actually, salvation security rests with God and is therefore sure. Really, the issue involves rejection of salvation and when this would result in loss.

www.scriptureprevails.com

 

[Danno2281]

Brother, they are all the exact same theme. Salvation lost. Salvation regained. Joy and Feasting.

And I find it ironic that you first told me that if the Church Fathers didn’t teach it, then it ain’t worth learning (paraphrasing), but now you’re telling me to think outside the box.

Touche.

 

[NotWorthy]

Touche.

God Bless you, my brother! Do you think we’ve hi-jacked this thread enough?

I’m going to look into your chapter 16 further, for I’ve always assumed that the scene was over with the Pharisees’ “joining the feast” cliff-hanger. Copland (a member on this site) has a website that provides some Church Father commentary. I’ll take a look at it, as well, and see what our beloved Fathers taught on this section of Luke. Thanks so much for your time and patience with me!

God Bless, again!

 

[Danno2281]

Consider: Publicans and sinners were drawing near and listening… Pharisees murmered… He spoke to them (Sinners who had to hear that they could find what they had lost or pharisees?or both?)…ch.16 v.14: “Now the Pharisees, who were fond of money were listening (it does not appear that they were the primary audience) to all these things.” Now Jesus directs his words to them, “You are they…”

 

[NHInsider]

You might note that this parable is not addressed “to them” as are the two previous, but is introduced by “And He said…” (v.11)followed by “And He also said to His disciples…” (ch16:1).There is no more textuial reason to believe that it is addressed to the pharasees than that it is addressed to His disciples.

And the fact that it is preserved in Scripture means it is not just for either of those groups, but for all of us. . .

 

[NotWorthy]

Consider: Publicans and sinners were drawing near and listening… Pharisees murmered… He spoke to them (Sinners who had to hear that they could find what they had lost or pharisees?or both?)…ch.16 v.14: “Now the Pharisees, who were fond of money were listening (it does not appear that they were the primary audience) to all these things.” Now Jesus directs his words to them, “You are they…”

So, it would appear that this is a different scene than chapter 15, for chapter 15, verse 3 specifies that Jesus was addressing them.

but the Pharisees and scribes began to complain, saying, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.” 3 So to them he addressed this parable.

 

[NotWorthy]

And the fact that it is preserved in Scripture means it is not just for either of those groups, but for all of us. . .

True. But Jesus’ parables are like Ogres. They’ve got layers. There are different messages to different groups.

 

[Danno2281]

So, it would appear that this is a different scene than chapter 15, for chapter 15, verse 3 specifies that Jesus was addressing them.

Perhaps “them” refers to those being complained about rather than those complaining, assuring “them” that, despite the complaints, they had good reason for hope.

 

[NotWorthy]

Perhaps “them” refers to those being complained about rather than those complaining, assuring “them” that, despite the complaints, they had good reason for hope.

Maybe so, but I don’t think so. The “sinners” are already flocking to Jesus. It seems (admittedly, in my opinion) that Jesus is explaining to the Pharisees why all the celebration.

I’ve been rather busy lately, but I’m going to look tonight at the Ignatius and the Navarre to see if this is correct.