Salvation for Catholics only

[dominikus28]

In ‘Unam sanctam’ Pope Boniface VIII stated: “… we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

This obviously means only Catholics can be saved, no?
Obviously if someone has no knowledge of Catholicism, that person would be an exception, but a Protestant down the street for example, who has full knowledge of all the different religions out there, he, I imagine, would not and he would not be saved.

 

[UKcatholicGuy]

That’s essentially my understanding of it, which is why it’s so important to evangelize. Catholic truth cannot change, even if current Church leaders downplay this truth.

I think the teaching can be summed up like this:
Our Lord instituted one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church (the Roman Catholic Church) to which all must belong to find salvation; for in finding His Church, one finds Christ Himself. The Church, after all, is the Body of Christ and has the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Christ and His Church cannot be separated. If one is ignorant of Christ and His Church through no fault of his own, God will not hold him accountable on this charge, for we are judged on what we know. However, that doesn’t mean that someone ignorant of the Church will automatically go to heaven. Rather, just like those inside the Church, he will have to render an account to God for all of his deeds. I venture to say it is impossible to keep from mortal sin without the aid of the Church. So, one in mortal sin without the Church has no access to confession, which is the ordinary means of the forgiveness of sins. Therefore, those outside the Church, if they are outside the Church due to innocent ignorance, are still in grave danger of hell because they do not have access to baptism and penance. Those outside the Church of their own free will are objectively in a state of mortal sin from their refusal to enter the Church, and therefore cannot attain heaven.

That’s my understanding. Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

In ‘Unam sanctam’ Pope Boniface VIII stated: “… we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

This obviously means only Catholics can be saved, no?
Obviously if someone has no knowledge of Catholicism, that person would be an exception, but a Protestant down the street for example, who has full knowledge of all the different religions out there, he, I imagine, would not and he would not be saved.

Pope Boniface VIII was pope in the late 13th, early 14th century. There weren’t any (official) Protestants at the time of this declaration, if you were a Christian you were an Orthodox/Catholic Christian.

 

[dominikus28]

Pope Boniface VIII was pope in the late 13th, early 14th century. There weren’t any (official) Protestants at the time of this declaration, if you were a Christian you were an Orthodox/Catholic Christian.

But they must be subject to the Roman Pontiff!

 

[bear06]

Work like they’re not saved and pray that they will be or are. We really don’t know exactly the culpability of a person’s soul nor do we know how far God’s mercy may extend. All we can do is speculate.

I’m not ready to write off C.S. Lewis for his not being formally united with the Holy Father.

 

[otjm]

Picking and choosing one statement by one Pope on a matter that the Church has spoken on since that pope spoke is an easy way to find oneself outside the teachings of the Magisterium of the Church.

 

[UKcatholicGuy]

Picking and choosing one statement by one Pope on a matter that the Church has spoken on since that pope spoke is an easy way to find oneself outside the teachings of the Magisterium of the Church.

He’s outside the teaching of the Church because he quoted an infallible pronouncement of a pope?

 

[nobeerinheaven]

I believe this article helps clarify what the position has always been. The quote you are talking about seems to have misled you; the Church’s position is far more nuanced.

catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?recnum=4084

 

[tradcathconvert]

And don’t forget:

“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

 

[otjm]

He’s outside the teaching of the Church because he quoted an infallible pronouncement of a pope?

No, he is close to wandering outside the Church’s teaching, as he is attempting, it would appear, to reduce the issue to one sentance when the understanding of that issue is much more nuanced and complicated than a simplistic formula.

The Church’s understanding of salvation is not utterly simplistic; but attempting to state the Church’s understanding of a complex issue in a simple sentance taken not only out of context of the whole statement of that pope, but all popes who have spoken on the issue is certainly to approach a theological issue in a very simplistic fashion.

And as to the infallibility of the statement, it is not infallible because the pope said it, as if it were an ex cathedra statement, as theologians hold for two ex cathedra statements in the history of the Chrurch - the definition of the Immacualte Conception and the Assumption.

If it is infallible, it is so because it is part of the continual Magisterial teaching of the Church from the beginning. And as such, it encompasses more than the simple sentance by one pope. So throwing around the term “infallible” isn’t going to win a lot of points. The teaching of the Church is infallible on the issue; but the issue is a bit more complex than one sentance taken out of context.

 

[TNT]

…" a simplistic formula"

So, what exactly is the difference between a “formula” and a Dogma?

And as to the infallibility of the statement, it is not infallible because the pope said it, as if it were an ex cathedra statement, as **theologians hold for two ex cathedra statements in the history of the Chrurch **- the definition of the Immacualte Conception and the Assumption.

You’re kidding right?

I mean, there might be 9 books in the NT instead of that bothersome “formula” of 27?

 

[DustinsDad]

In ‘Unam sanctam’ Pope Boniface VIII stated: “… we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

Actually, and it’s probably been pointed out here already, it’s been infallibly and specifically proclaimed at least three times in Church history:“One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (IV Lateran Council, A.D. 1215)
“We declare, we say, we define, and we pronounce that it is wholly necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. The Lateran, November 14th, in our eighth year. As a perpetual memorial of this matter.” (Unam Sanctam, A.D. 1302)
“It [the Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that none of those outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but neither Jews, nor heretics and schismatics, can become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life they have been added to the Church; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practised, even if he has shed [his] blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugenius IV, A.D. 1431-1447, at Council of Florence, Cantate Domino, A.D. 1442)

In This obviously means only Catholics can be saved, no?

Um, yes. They would be catholic by being incorporated into the mystical body of Christ - the Catholic Church. There has always been understood certain conditions wherein one could be possibly connected to the Church without a visible (to our eyes) connection - but common sense tells us it is rare and difficult.

Problem is, nowadays, folks tend to make the rare and difficult not-so-rare, and not-so-difficult.

Here’s a pretty good article covering the topic:

Questions and Answers on Salvation, by Father Michael Muller, C.SS.R

and another one:

Invincible or Inculpable Ignorance Neither Saves nor Damns a Person, by by Father Michael Müller, C.Ss.R.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

 

[TNT]

In ‘Unam sanctam’ Pope Boniface VIII stated: “… we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

This obviously means only Catholics can be saved, no?
…

YES.
2COR 4:1-4:
1 Therefore, seeing we have this ministration, according as we have obtained mercy, we faint not; 2 But we renounce the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor adulterating the word of God; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience, in the sight of God. 3 And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

That’s essentially my understanding of it, which is why it’s so important to evangelize. Catholic truth cannot change, even if current Church leaders downplay this truth.

I think the teaching can be summed up like this:
Our Lord instituted one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church (the Roman Catholic Church) to which all must belong to find salvation; for in finding His Church, one finds Christ Himself. The Church, after all, is the Body of Christ and has the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Christ and His Church cannot be separated. If one is ignorant of Christ and His Church through no fault of his own, God will not hold him accountable on this charge, for we are judged on what we know. However, that doesn’t mean that someone ignorant of the Church will automatically go to heaven. Rather, just like those inside the Church, he will have to render an account to God for all of his deeds. I venture to say it is impossible to keep from mortal sin without the aid of the Church. So, one in mortal sin without the Church has no access to confession, which is the ordinary means of the forgiveness of sins. Therefore, those outside the Church, if they are outside the Church due to innocent ignorance, are still in grave danger of hell because they do not have access to baptism and penance. Those outside the Church of their own free will are objectively in a state of mortal sin from their refusal to enter the Church, and therefore cannot attain heaven.

That’s my understanding. Correct me if I’m wrong.

I think I can essentially agree with this. There are basically two extremes which we should avoid. On one hand people say that EVERYBODY apart from the Catholics will be saved. Or that everybody who is a nice guy or believes in Jesus will be saved. All of them are wrong. The Church still remains the path Christ instituted for our salvation. Everybody MUST join the Catholic Church. Those who by no fault of their own do not become Catholic are not accountable for this grave sin but their path to eternal live will be much more difficult. That is why we should pray for them but condemning non-catholics is VERY wrong.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

On one hand people say that EVERYBODY apart from the Catholics will be saved

I meant: EVERYBODY apart from the Catholics will be damned.

 

[Markstorm]

I meant: EVERYBODY apart from the Catholics will be damned.

Whew. I was about to say, the situation is far worse than we imagined!

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Whew. I was about to say, the situation is far worse than we imagined!

 

[Joel_Tunnah]

The Lord said, Take up my yoke, my burden is light. This is the easy way. There is also the hard way. But none of you can say who is, or who isn’t going to “hell”.

Our parish priest explained it this way to everyone.

Also, the “Old Covenant” is still in place for Jews. They do not need to become Catholic to be “saved”.

These type of threads give Catholics a bad name.

OTJM: your posts are always very informative, and insightful. Thanks.

Joel

 

[Markstorm]

The Lord said, Take up my yoke, my burden is light. This is the easy way. There is also the hard way. But none of you can say who is, or who isn’t going to “hell”.

Our parish priest explained it this way to everyone.

Also, the “Old Covenant” is still in place for Jews. They do not need to become Catholic to be “saved”.

These type of threads give Catholics a bad name.

OTJM: your posts are always very informative, and insightful. Thanks.

Joel

I’d like to see some arguments against what DustinsDad quoted. Insults don’t count.

 

[CollegeKid]

The Lord said, Take up my yoke, my burden is light. This is the easy way. There is also the hard way. But none of you can say who is, or who isn’t going to “hell”.

Our parish priest explained it this way to everyone.

Also, the “Old Covenant” is still in place for Jews. They do not need to become Catholic to be “saved”.

These type of threads give Catholics a bad name.

OTJM: your posts are always very informative, and insightful. Thanks.

Joel

Respectfully, I have no idea how faithful Catholics can hold the idea that the Old Covenant is still in place as a **saving **covenant for the Jews. Questionable statements and catechisms from the USCCB aside, Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus is the teaching of the Church. That applies to everybody, including the Jews. If we believe that it is objectively compatible with the teachings of Jesus Christ for Jews to remain Jewish instead of being received into the Church, then it begs the question of why on God’s green earth would 11 of the 12 Apostles go to their deaths as martyrs for preaching the need for conversion of the whole world, Jew and Gentile alike?