Why can’t they rejoice in repentance for its own sake? Repentance is a moral good, no?
had to think on first line.Repentance I think is not moral ,but it is good.Like if someone smokes dope that is bad morally. If someone then chooses not to smoke that is good morally. I guess repentance is not a moral. I guess I was referring to repentance from unbelief in God’s saving grace. Like repenting from not believing in Jesus and crucifying Him, like those St. Peter addressed on Pentecost Sunday. I think they could do that once. Usually you are only born once spiritually, born again, regenerated. Again, I am thinking in terms of one coming to faith as a person of reasoning age.
Okay.
Well, we could repent of that only if we knew it was the right thing to believe but chose not to.
Yes. This occurs at baptism
And this occurs at confirmation.
Absolutely but sounds a little killjoy.
Yes, Paul said, 'Oh miserable man that I am for I do what I would not and what I would I do not, who can save me from my dilemma.Thank God for Jesus Christ.". Here we are vulnerable, to be taken advantage of by religious zealots who will provide "relief " by…how do you spell relief ? ,instead of the simplicity of Paul’s words, it is Jesus, right there ,one on one with his presence and truth that will set us free. Whew, that was easy .Not really for we are tempted to be comforted by our own efforts/works,veiled in piety
No, but they understood what Paul meant . They are not squeamish at our faults, and see us as God sees us, thru His son . We have a relationship, good, bad or ugly at times, but we have one where as before we had none . In fact we were at enmity with Him. The big picture.
Does man have an excuse ? Do we have to fully understand to obey ? What we are refusing is to be shown it is the right thing. It really is quite depraved, saying no to the Holy Spirit.
Again, the ministry of the Holy Spirit is three-fold : #1-to convict of sin, #2- of righteousness(Christ), #3-of judgement to come. This he does thru His Word , even thru nature somewhat if gospel hasn’t reached your land.
Maybe, maybe not. Circumcision did not guarantee this in the old. This is what is referred to as make sure of your election.
Maybe, maybe not. Being bharmitzvahd did not guarantee this either in the old. Make your election sure.
Tried to respond to thread 229 but had to copy and paste and goofed it up -it timed out on me. Sorry. Howdy by the way .Thanks for sharing your insights-have been reading some of it.Blessings
Really? Do you think that angels rejoicing at the birth of Christ in Bethlehem was killjoy, too? They certainly were not rejoicing at the prospect of his passion, crucifixion and death, right?
What circumcision guaranteed was a mark made that this was a child of Abraham.
Or perhaps David is confused about what baptism means for Catholics/Orthodox?
No. Genesis says there are only two kinds of folks/seed . A child of Abraham is a child of the Promise and in line as a child of God just like us. There are still two kinds of folk .No confusion here.
Not sure how that applies to my comment, david. It does appear to be a non-sequitur? Unless you can explain a bit further what you mean?
Yes, this is very Catholic.
PRmerger, the killjoy refers not to rejoicing in repentance but to limiting the rejoicing to an event without assurance /hope of lasting effectualness.
Just like the angels limited their rejoicing to the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem.
CANON XII.-If any one saith, that justifying faith is nothing else but confidence in the divine mercy which remits sins for Christ’s sake; or, that this confidence alone is that whereby we are justified; let him be anathema.
Amen!
Nothing! God’s forgiveness is complete and utter.
Indeed. This is very Catholic of you to say!
What guarantee? That they are a child of God by virtue of their baptism? If they don’t proclaim it it’s because they were poorly catechized would be my guess.
More assured of what? That they are a child of God by virtue of their baptism?
Yes, OSAS is a diabolical design meant to trick Christians into a false assurance.
But all Calvinists think that they are the ones who are the elect, curiously.
This is how. (Bold type mine) From the CCC:
I understand the possibility of falling . There are scriptures of assurance AND scriptures of persevering, AND of being mistaken on one’s standing ("depart fro me…) I mentioned this in an earlier thread .I don’t totally agree with OSAS, but I also see the other end, keeping saints fearful, unsure, trusting in their actions, religious activity. If one begins the spiritual journey based totally on His grace and saving power (esp.if you believe in infant regeneration-the infant simply receiving without any work), that is how we are kept to the end. I would say this is the primary focus of our hope. Again I said primary. Are we more pious cause we know of our own depravity ? Maybe. But if we "worry " about it, to where it overshadows HIS work at keeping us, that is sin. What are we trusting in after regeneration/justification ? By His Spirit we are drawn to His word, to fellowship, to good works, to hating sin, to a deeper understanding of His work at Calvary etc… I am sorry you feel some are selective cafeteria style on scripture application. I feel some do the same. Revelations does give both sides .We are to keep the faith to the end . Some will depart ,grow lukewarm. This is at the individual level, but at the church level , and even at the church (denominational ) level. This is clear in scripture, just as clear that He will guide the church. But, as an individual can stray, so can a church. As you know, some ala cafeteria style selectively don’t see that. It is like “once right always right”. Like Calvinists with predestination of individuals, some are with their church.