Salvation for non-Catholics

[cheese_sdc]

So why would they want to spend an eternity in heaven praising someone they didn’t give two hoots about their entire lives? I think God calls out to each one of us… over & over again. If a person doesn’t believe God even exists, they have made a decision to do so in my opinion.

Are they “good people.” Perhaps. But we aren’t saved by our good works… if we were, Jesus’ death on the cross to pay for our sins was pointless.

There was an interesting CA show a while back that contained some information that I think is relevant to this post:

Sept. 11, 2006 “Do you have a Healthy View of God”.

The guest made some profound statements about Christ’s death during that show.

 

[SPH1]

Just a point: God didn’t have to save anyone. And everyone who is saved is saved through His grace alone.

 

[carol_marie]

There was an interesting CA show a while back that contained some information that I think is relevant to this post:

Sept. 11, 2006 “Do you have a Healthy View of God”.

The guest made some profound statements about Christ’s death during that show.

well since I missed it… could you share the highlights?

 

[Caesar]

It’s interesting how much disagreement our priests have. The teaching by the Church must have many grey areas open to individual interpretation for that to be. Is the Church delibrately not clarifying this for us? Carole’s priest said something totally different than my priest, who has been a faithful priest for many years! Maybe the Church its self is uncertain who is saved or what exactly is the final truth in the matter.

To me it makes more sense that non-Catholics are treated fairly by God, since God is God who surely underdstands individual circumstances. I don’t think someone even has to conciously seek God since some people just try to do good and don’t believe in God.

The Church is very clear on it’s teachings. We are blessed to have such infallible doctrine.

If a priest teaches wrong, it is not because the Church is unlear- it is because he is. Priests are fallible humans. They can be wrong. The Tradition of the Church cannot.

We must hold our priests to a high standard. They are our teachers. If they teach falsely, then they have failed as teachers.

Godbless, Carol’s priest is right in his teachings. Yours is not. One can be faithful, but that doesnt make him infallible or even right. See how relativism and modernism has infiltrated even into our Holy Clergy?

 

[mikeledes]

If a non-Catholic rejects the gospel, will they be saved? I know that if he is convinced of th truth of it but rejects it he will be damned. But how many non-Catholics actually reject the gospel knowing in their hearts that it is true? Most non-Catholics reject the Catholic Church because they believe it is false or wrong. Do these people have a possibility of salvation?

 

[THutch04]

My personal belief is that I think it’s more likely they’ll be saved than not. Maybe I say that because non-Catholics are a good 99% of my family and I like to think of them being in Heaven (although the general consensus lately seems to be that I’m just a bad Catholic, but oh well). That being said, I don’t know the salvation status of anyone, Catholic or not. All I can do is hope that everyone I care about is saved.

 

[cheese_sdc]

well since I missed it… could you share the highlights?

I would recommend listening to the podcast, as the discussion contained sufficiently subtle points that I’m likely to get it wrong.

About halfway through the show, a person called and asked about the difference between a typically protestant view of the death and resurrection of Christ and the Catholic view of the death and resurrection of Christ.

IIRC, protestants tend to see this event as God abandoning Jesus to the powers of darkness and dumped all the sins of the world on Jesus’s head. IMO, this leads to an attitude “that if you don’t bring your sins to the cross, then they aren’t forgiven” which leads to the idea that “only christians are saved”.

The guest speaker then stated that the Catholic view of the cross and resurrection was more about the idea that since death entered through one man, only one man could defeat death. IMO, since Jesus died for all people, at all times, and that god wants all men to be saved, that gives all people, regardless of religious afflilation an “in” for ultimate salvation.

I think this view can also be found in “The Declaration of Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions”.

 

[Binary]

CCC to the rescue!

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

1259 For *catechumens *who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."63 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

As many have already said, aside from those who have been canonized we don’t know the fate of a given person’s soul. For those who don’t believe in God but strive to do good anyway, we can hope that they go to heaven just as much as we can hope for the souls of fellow Catholics. Just because someone said “Jesus loves you, come to church lol” doesn’t mean they are no longer “ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church.”

 

[godbless]

Thankyou binary and cheese for your posts that said what I was trying to say but couldn’t say very well. I personally believe in a lenient God who fully understands humanity’s pitiful predicament. I’m sorry that Caesar is no longer in the conversation for now, I found his contributions interesting and value his imput. Thank you brothers and sisters for your thoughts.

My priest suggests that very few end up in Hell because most of us are so much a product of our enviornments and forces beyond our control What do you think of that idea? I tend to agree with it because I really can’t imagine a harsh God. And it seems as if no matter how many times I go to confession I still repeat the same sins over and over again so I wonder how much free will I really have.

 

[Valke2]

This makes no sense.

God’s forgiveness and mercy is eternal and without bounds, but if we dont believe in it or overtly reject it, then we also rject salvation.

um… than his mercy and forgivness is not without bounds. It is limited to the extent one accepts it…

 

[cheese_sdc]

My priest suggests that very few end up in Hell because most of us are so much a product of our enviornments and forces beyond our control What do you think of that idea? I tend to agree with it because I really can’t imagine a harsh God. And it seems as if no matter how many times I go to confession I still repeat the same sins over and over again so I wonder how much free will I really have.

Excellent question and one that I really can’t answer. We do have a free will. However, we do know that free will can be impeded by environment, culture, circumstances, knowledge, etc.

How much a person’s free will is thus impeded is known only by God. Therefore I tend to allow great latitude for God’s mercy, both in my life and the lives of others.

 

[AdamSteven]

The Church is very clear on it’s teachings. We are blessed to have such infallible doctrine.

If a priest teaches wrong, it is not because the Church is unlear- it is because he is. Priests are fallible humans. They can be wrong. The Tradition of the Church cannot.

We must hold our priests to a high standard. They are our teachers. If they teach falsely, then they have failed as teachers.

Godbless, Carol’s priest is right in his teachings. Yours is not. One can be faithful, but that doesnt make him infallible or even right. See how relativism and modernism has infiltrated even into our Holy Clergy?

 

[carol_marie]

tend to agree with it because** I really can’t imagine a harsh God**. And it seems as if no matter how many times I go to confession I still repeat the same sins over and over again so I wonder how much free will I really have.

God doesn’t change. He is the same yesterday - today - and always. When I read the Old Test. I am struck by how “harsh” God seems. I think as Christians we tend to focus on the warm fuzzy part of God so it’s hard for us to imagine that He’d send anyone to hell…

His ways are not our ways… I just think we have to be careful that we do not project our feelings onto God. I wouldn’t send anyone to hell (except Hitler maybe?) but then again, I wouldn’t have killed that man on the spot who touched the ark of the convanant before it hit the ground. I also wouldn’t have killed all the firstborns in Egypt… all those babies & children… but see, God’s way aren’t mine. Which is a good thing… because God is perfect in his mercy… but also in his Justice.

 

[VociMike]

There are a few complexities in this question. We know God desires all to be saved, and that He writes His law into every human heart, and we believe that God offers to all the necessary grace to be saved. So I can’t believe that those who for reasons beyond their control have not heard of Christ, or are unable to approach Christianity with an open mind, are put at a disadvantage. On top of that, we Catholics have the sobering reminder that to whom much is given, from him much is expected.

What we Catholics have is not necessarily better odds at salvation, but without question a better opportunity for a fuller relationship with God while here on earth. Being members of the Church, we have access to both the fullness of God’s revelation, and the fullness of His graces. We have the best opportunity to be closest to Him, and the closer one is to God, the easier it is to do His will rather than oppose His will.

 

[cheese_sdc]

What we Catholics have is not necessarily better odds at salvation, but without question a better opportunity for a fuller relationship with God while here on earth. Being members of the Church, we have access to both the fullness of God’s revelation, and the fullness of His graces. We have the best opportunity to be closest to Him, and the closer one is to God, the easier it is to do His will rather than oppose His will.

Well said.

 

[Binary]

Well said.

Definitely.

 

[mommyof4]

based on same standards as Catholics

 

[Randy_Carson]

I voted that we’ll all be judged by the same standards. I think God is very lenient with his children although he makes big threats to try to get us to behave better.

Are you suggesting that God might tell a “little white lie” about hell and damnation in order to scare his children into behaving?

 

[trth_skr]

I really like the idea of the poll, but it is practically useless as written. There needed to be one more choice: ‘Not at all’, as some Catholics do hold this view. I voted for one of the available choices, but for the desigining of polls, you need to make an effort to include all likely options, and like it or not, that is a choice (and the Church does tolerate this view at this time).

I did not read the comments, so you may already have adressed this issue.

Here is what I think is a reasonably designed poll I did on CA with analysis.

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com

 

[DRIVING_BEAR]

Salvation Is Only Possible By Grace Throught Faith In Jesus Christ . SO CHRIST IS AVAILABLE TO CATHOLIC AND NON CATHOLIC ALIKE Two Other Quick Thoughts.
Remenber Grace Is A Acronym For
Gods
Riches
At
Christ’s
Expense
And Second It Is Wrong And Insulting To Refer
To Non Catholic As Ignorant ( See Last Choice In Poll Question )