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clfire
Guest
Isn’t it amazing how many views there are from various Catholic believers?
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tdcjco
Guest
It’s even more amazing how someone disregards scripture. If I quote John 3:16, someone will come along and practice canon law without a license and tell me that a) the word ‘whosoever’ doesn’t mean what I’m pretty sure it means and b) the church teaches differently, but there’s no contradiction.
I’m leaving this alone after this post. There’s no reasoning with self important, judgemental, pseudo academics who are almost rooting for their Christian brothers to be condemned. Last time I checked it wasn’t their decision but I’m convinced a lot of posters here believe they get (name removed by moderator)ut. It’s sad and ugly and shows a complete lack of compassion. I’ll pray for them.
I’m leaving this alone after this post. There’s no reasoning with self important, judgemental, pseudo academics who are almost rooting for their Christian brothers to be condemned. Last time I checked it wasn’t their decision but I’m convinced a lot of posters here believe they get (name removed by moderator)ut. It’s sad and ugly and shows a complete lack of compassion. I’ll pray for them.
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Bballer32
Guest
Actually i think we’re all really trying to understand the Church’s teachings and some have complete arrogance to what is being said
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Oren
Guest
No. I’m not judging anyone or any category. The people who say that everyone is going to be saved are the ones who are judging where they have no business judging. All I did was quote the Catechism. It says through no fault of their own. Invincible ignorance. God can do whatever He wants obviously in how He judges. We can only work with what He’s given us and what He says is that we should evangelize and convert, not sit on our butts while people go to hell because we thought that everyone is saved…or oh, as long they go to their protestant church they’re ok. That IS NOT our judgment to make, that is God’s judgment. What we know is that God gave us one Church and we should do what we can to make sure everyone is in that Church fully.
Again. It is not our judgment to make that someone is ok in their salvation as long as they say that they believe in Jesus and go to a protestant Church. Jesus said there would be people who called Him Lord who will not go to heaven. That includes Catholics and that includes Protestants more because they don’t have all of the opportunities for Grace that Catholics do.
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tdcjco
Guest
Reread John 3:16. Tell me what is ambiguous or unclear about it.
‘For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believes in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life.’
It couldn’t be more clear, but there are some who will argue that they know more or know better.
‘For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believes in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life.’
It couldn’t be more clear, but there are some who will argue that they know more or know better.
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Oren
Guest
Go read Matthew 24:13 and 1 Peter 3:21 and Phillipians 2:12 and James 2:24…there are any number of verses I could tell you to read that refute your very simplistic understanding of the bible. You can’t pick one verse out of the bible and say that it covers everything or teaches everything. You have to look at scripture as a whole.
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tdcjco
Guest
See, I told you.
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Oren
Guest
Ok ignore the whole bible and just stick with one verse. You can go start your own church and call it the john 3:16 church cuz what you’re saying is not Catholic teaching.
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Aussieman88
Guest
What I’m saying is the catholic church is descended through peter. Other christian churches are started through Paul. Same message, christianity.
Same goes now. When the bible says ‘the church’ they don’t just mean only ones started by Peter but catholics are of the ones only started by Peter.
In todays example. The other christian churches are still part of ‘the church’.
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Aussieman88
Guest
The problem with John 3:16 is that most people don’t understand what Believe means.
Jesus said the one who BELIEVES in me will do the things I have done and greater.
Jesus said and I’ll quote this so hopefully someone will get it.
Mark 16: 17 These signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will drive out demons, they will speak new languages. They will pick up serpents (with their hands), and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not harm them. They will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.
Most of you don’t actually believe in the way that Jesus describes it. You say you do but you don’t or you would do these things. The signs will just follow you to confirm Gods word that you just spoke. Believing is not enough there must be actions? yes its true. but a true believer will not be able to keep it to themselves. Its not possible. Its too exciting. They will go out and heal the sick and drive out demons. They feel and see the glory of God and the rest of you are missing out. So next time you hear about charismatics speaking in tongues and you think they are a bunch of weirdo’s pause for a minute and think. They are the ones that truly believe. ** Where does that leave you?**
Study the new testament with the aim of getting closer to God. Seek like this and you WILL find him and your life will just get better and better.
Jesus is Lord.
Jesus said the one who BELIEVES in me will do the things I have done and greater.
Jesus said and I’ll quote this so hopefully someone will get it.
Mark 16: 17 These signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will drive out demons, they will speak new languages. They will pick up serpents (with their hands), and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not harm them. They will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.
Most of you don’t actually believe in the way that Jesus describes it. You say you do but you don’t or you would do these things. The signs will just follow you to confirm Gods word that you just spoke. Believing is not enough there must be actions? yes its true. but a true believer will not be able to keep it to themselves. Its not possible. Its too exciting. They will go out and heal the sick and drive out demons. They feel and see the glory of God and the rest of you are missing out. So next time you hear about charismatics speaking in tongues and you think they are a bunch of weirdo’s pause for a minute and think. They are the ones that truly believe. ** Where does that leave you?**
Study the new testament with the aim of getting closer to God. Seek like this and you WILL find him and your life will just get better and better.
Jesus is Lord.
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Bballer32
Guest
The “whosoever” part is really not the big part in the belief process.
This verse is a big controversy because the actual translation says “should not perish” rather than “shall not perish”. The form of “should not” is implying that we shouldn’t perish but there is a possibility.
Notice the Word Might in both of the verses of John. When might isn’t there, it really messes with the true meaning.
The word MIGHT and MAY are so important in Bible verses and Greek and Hebrew because they change the whole meaning of the phrase. With the MIGHT and MAY, the writers are saying that there is a chance to go to heaven but a similar chance of going to hell also.
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clfire
Guest
This is from the Catholic Encyclopedia re: Salvation
The Council of Trent describes the process of salvation from sin in the case of an adult with great minuteness (Sess. VI, v-vi).
It begins with the grace of God which touches a sinner’s heart, and calls him to repentance. This grace cannot be merited; it proceeds solely from the love and mercy of God. Man may receive or reject this inspiration of God, he may gurn to God or remain in sin. Grace does not constrain man’s free will.
Thus assisted the sinned is disposed for salvation from sin; he believes in the revelation and promises of God, he fears God’s justice, hopes in his mercy, trusts that God will be merciful to him for Christ’s sake, begins to love God as the source of all justice, hates and detests his sins.
This disposition is followed by justification itself, which consists not in the mere remission of sins, but in the sanctification and renewal of the inner man by the voluntary reception of God’s grace and gifts, whence a man becomes just instead of unjust, a friend instead of a foe and so an heir according to hope of eternal life. This change happens either by reason of a perfect act of charity elicited by a well disposed sinner or by virtue of the Sacrament either of Baptism or of Penance according to the condition of the respective subject laden with sin. The Council indicates the causes of this change. By the merit of the Most Holy Passion through the Holy Spirit, the charity of God is shed abroad in the hearts of those who are justified.
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So? What do you all think of this statement via Catholic Encyclopedia?**********
The Council of Trent describes the process of salvation from sin in the case of an adult with great minuteness (Sess. VI, v-vi).
It begins with the grace of God which touches a sinner’s heart, and calls him to repentance. This grace cannot be merited; it proceeds solely from the love and mercy of God. Man may receive or reject this inspiration of God, he may gurn to God or remain in sin. Grace does not constrain man’s free will.
Thus assisted the sinned is disposed for salvation from sin; he believes in the revelation and promises of God, he fears God’s justice, hopes in his mercy, trusts that God will be merciful to him for Christ’s sake, begins to love God as the source of all justice, hates and detests his sins.
This disposition is followed by justification itself, which consists not in the mere remission of sins, but in the sanctification and renewal of the inner man by the voluntary reception of God’s grace and gifts, whence a man becomes just instead of unjust, a friend instead of a foe and so an heir according to hope of eternal life. This change happens either by reason of a perfect act of charity elicited by a well disposed sinner or by virtue of the Sacrament either of Baptism or of Penance according to the condition of the respective subject laden with sin. The Council indicates the causes of this change. By the merit of the Most Holy Passion through the Holy Spirit, the charity of God is shed abroad in the hearts of those who are justified.
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So? What do you all think of this statement via Catholic Encyclopedia?**********
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