O
Oren
Guest
Someone has to be invincibly ignorant to be saved outside the church. No one in America qualifies for that unless they have severe mental/IQ problems.
- Status
B
bluemug
Guest
Jesus came to the world not to judge, but to save the world.
He is PERFECT, and His Mission is PERFECTly finished. I do believe that He saved everyone.
There is purgatory, where God gives EXTRA time for everyone to come back HisWay.
He NEVER fails. He can only give GOOD things. He can change bad into GOOD.
That’s my belief, and I try to put my trust in Him who is very perfectly benevolent.
…“He loves the world so much, that He sent His only Son”…
Let us try not to doubt Him.
He is PERFECT, and His Mission is PERFECTly finished. I do believe that He saved everyone.
There is purgatory, where God gives EXTRA time for everyone to come back HisWay.
He NEVER fails. He can only give GOOD things. He can change bad into GOOD.
That’s my belief, and I try to put my trust in Him who is very perfectly benevolent.
…“He loves the world so much, that He sent His only Son”…
Let us try not to doubt Him.
O
Oren
Guest
Broad and wide the road that leads to heaven and almost everyone is going there, narrow and hard the way to hell and almost no one is going there, maybe Hitler. ~ Things Jesus Never Said
Jesus said the exact opposite. He said He’s going to separate the sheep from the goats. Why would He say that if there are no goats?? If there is nothing to separate.
**“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
Why would Jesus say this if everyone is saved? He says I WILL SAY THIS TO THESE UNSAVED PEOPLE. He’s gonna say it. People who espouse universal salvation or that it is a common thing to be saved are listening to themselves and the world not Jesus.
**
B
batman1973
Guest
That’s odd…Lutherans have group confession as part of the service…There is also a private confession. I can’t imagine the WELS being that different from the rest of Confessional Lutheranism.
C
clfire
Guest
Just because you know a particular church exists, that doesn’t mean you know what they believe and teach…
And obviously many Catholics don’t know EXACTLY what the Catholic Church teaches…you really have to study it and try to understand…and even then you you may misunderstand something for a long time until you are enlightened…and some teachings you simply have to accept on Faith…
But back to the salvation issue of Protestants…if they have not been TOLD the teaching of the Church on the matter…how can they be held accountable? Even if someone does tell them, if they are not told correctly. can they be held accountable? If they don’t understand it is the TRUTH, can they be held accountable? If someone hand them a paper and they read our belief in Penance, etc and they refuse to believe it becaus all their life the religion they belong to professed something different, can they be held accountable? (I am speaking in all cases of Believers in God, Christ, etc)…
Are they to be regulated with the unbelieving goats at the Last Judgment?
It’s hard for to think so…yet some of you have said the Catholic Church is the ONLY way to get saved…if so, WHY ARE WE NOT LIKE SOME CHURCHES AND POUNDING ON EVERY DOOR TRYING TO EVANGELIZE NOT ONLY THE HEATHENS BUT ALSO THE GOD BELIEVING PROTESTANTS???
I wish some priests, monks, nuns would enlightn me on this subject!!!
And obviously many Catholics don’t know EXACTLY what the Catholic Church teaches…you really have to study it and try to understand…and even then you you may misunderstand something for a long time until you are enlightened…and some teachings you simply have to accept on Faith…
But back to the salvation issue of Protestants…if they have not been TOLD the teaching of the Church on the matter…how can they be held accountable? Even if someone does tell them, if they are not told correctly. can they be held accountable? If they don’t understand it is the TRUTH, can they be held accountable? If someone hand them a paper and they read our belief in Penance, etc and they refuse to believe it becaus all their life the religion they belong to professed something different, can they be held accountable? (I am speaking in all cases of Believers in God, Christ, etc)…
Are they to be regulated with the unbelieving goats at the Last Judgment?
It’s hard for to think so…yet some of you have said the Catholic Church is the ONLY way to get saved…if so, WHY ARE WE NOT LIKE SOME CHURCHES AND POUNDING ON EVERY DOOR TRYING TO EVANGELIZE NOT ONLY THE HEATHENS BUT ALSO THE GOD BELIEVING PROTESTANTS???
I wish some priests, monks, nuns would enlightn me on this subject!!!
F
fred_conty
Guest
ThekingdomofGod,
thank you for your explaination. I can understand your concern.
Maybe a further idea of why I said what I said may be of help.
It wasn’t in a bad connotation against protestants, but rather as reasons why they remain protestants in an understandable way.
If I didn’t convey this, my apologies.
Best wishes.
thank you for your explaination. I can understand your concern.
Maybe a further idea of why I said what I said may be of help.
It wasn’t in a bad connotation against protestants, but rather as reasons why they remain protestants in an understandable way.
If I didn’t convey this, my apologies.
Best wishes.
F
fred_conty
Guest
That is a good idea. And I agree maybe we should.
But we couldn’t expect the priests to do it since most of them are already on overload.
But there are also catholic groups who do this kind of work, the one that comes to mind is the Legion of Mary, which is apostolic, and not to be confused with the Blue Army. Totally different.
The Legion of Mary is setup as an organization to do that, but training would be necessary.
As a function of the Legion, they go in two’s for two hours a week out in the world to do various tasks.
Just a thought.
Z
Zenkai
Guest
A devout Protestant is probably ignorant of the fact that the Catholic Church is the true Church.
B
Bballer32
Guest
Let me ask you this. If everyone on this earth held fast to the teachings of their religion (yes, it goes this big in this sense) and stayed true to THEIR rules no matter how anti-whatever they are, then religion Christ would have lied to us. Religions are not all equal. IF they were, then no one would have to worry about hell or doing evil, since everyone would be right.
Since we as Catholics can disprove Catholicism far more than they can disprove us, then we are going to hold that our teachings are True. So, whether the informed Protestant converts or doesn’t is up to him. He is taking that risk.
Well, priests and monks/nuns are all pretty busy. What are the lay people doing? WE all as the Universal Church need to contact others. But, i think the reason there is more of other religions doing this is because they do not have a very big group of followers (Ex. Mormons= about 1,000,000 & Catholics= 1.2 billion)
C
clfire
Guest
Looked Legion of Mary up on Internet…very interesting…don’t think there are any in Oklahoma City?? Maybe in Tulsa…
Thanks
L
Lifesong
Guest
I am a member of the Legion of Mary- it is a wonderful organization! I am a convert who is married to a cradle Catholic who had already fallen away when we married 36 years ago and he was not particularly well catechized. I also had a Catholic grandmother but I can tell you that knowing there is a Catholic Church and some of what they believe and saying no thanks which is what I did for many years is not the same as true understanding of the faith which I said Yes to this past Easter. I do not believe that I would have been held responsible for my ignorance- I do believe that once I accepted and understood the teachings of thre Church which was two years ago at this point and still stayed Methodist, then I would have had something to answer for. So now I am Catholic, my husband is back, and I am working on two young adult children who are unchurched anyway at this point. I do believe my Methodist mother who loved and trusted Jesus more than anyone I have ever known is now a saint in Heaven. It’s funny, as a Protestant I was always more Evangelical and had a much more up and down view of salvation- you believed and were saved or you didn’t and that made me so sad for those who didn’t. As a Catholic I really love what the Catechism teaches as it gives me so much more hope, however being Catholic if you do this they way the Lord intended is definitely more difficult, narrow road and all, but it also brings so much more peace. This is the time of Divine Mercy- and we need to get that message out.
Blessings,
Val
Blessings,
Val
C
clfire
Guest
Thanks Val…I am just getting back “home” to my Catholic faith myself…it’s a very serious religion and until I could embrace it with both my heart and mind I strayed…but here I am too…and any little things you could tell me about the Legion of Mary would be great…
F
fred_conty
Guest
Lifesong, congrats for being a member of the Legion. Great group. Very spiritual and yet is constant in doing good.
O
Oren
Guest
INVINCIBLY ignorant. That means they could never have known it because they live in a jungle somewhere and can’t read! A Protestant living in America or England or wherever is NOT invincibly ignorant. Even if no one ever knocks on their door or evangelizes them they are STILL NOT because they have the means to look for the truth. They have libraries, the internet, books etc. That means it is their responsibility to seek the truth.
The catechism says:
This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation. (CCC 847)
Notice they say through no fault of their own. Not seeking the Truth is your own fault if you have the means to seek it.
L
Lifesong
Guest
The Legion of Mary is world wide and has been around a long time. You may want to google Frank Duff the founder who was from Ireland for the history. In a nutshell our works are the spiritual works of mercy and in our group we do outreach to nursing homes to pray with residents and bring them back to the sacraments, lead rosary groups in the nursing homes, sponsor RCIA candidates and assist in the RCIA program which is my work as I am a new convert and that is where I was assigned, and our new initiative is the Pilgrim Mary program where a statue of Our Lady of Fatima is taken to homes for one week with a set of prayers with the idea of encouraging the family rosary. I love our group and I really recommend it for those who are looking to put faith into action. I like to think it is putting my total consecration to Mary in action- working for Mary to serve Our Lord is demanding but worth it!
God Bless,
Val
T
tdcjco
Guest
If you attended Mass this morning, or last night’s vigil, you heard Romans 10:9 as part of the second reading.
‘for, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord
and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved. For one believes with the heart and so is justified,
and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved.’
Seems pretty straightforward to me.
‘for, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord
and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved. For one believes with the heart and so is justified,
and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved.’
Seems pretty straightforward to me.
P
philv
Guest
I think it’s important to note today’s reading:
Romans 10:8-13
8But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”
(that is, the word of faith that we preach), 9 for, if you confess* with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved. 11 For the scripture says, “No one who believes in him will be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, enriching all who call upon him.k 13For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
So anyone who confesses this will be saved. Paul digs deeper saying if you don’t have love shining out, then you have nothing. James relates by saying ‘Faith without works is dead.’
There is also baptism, which is when the Holy Spirit begins to guide you.
In Acts, we see the universal church being practiced, and Paul was a messenger of that church who was sent out to dispute false teachings outside of them. So we’re all called into that universal church.
Romans 10:17 also reads…
17Thus faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ.
So to stretch that even further, we have to be listening to Christ’s true church as believers because faith is what is heard, not what’s read by ourselves which is subject to a wide variety of outside interpretations.
And further, in my own understanding, Christ says if you do not eat of his flesh and drink his blood, you have no life in you. So you have to be in communion with His church.
So remember the basics! Christ will continue to call all of us into His church, as he did me last year. The beauty of the Christian life is that Christ keeps calling us to take further steps into His church, and I don’t know why any of us would take a step back and say no.
Romans 10:8-13
8But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”
(that is, the word of faith that we preach), 9 for, if you confess* with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved. 11 For the scripture says, “No one who believes in him will be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, enriching all who call upon him.k 13For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
So anyone who confesses this will be saved. Paul digs deeper saying if you don’t have love shining out, then you have nothing. James relates by saying ‘Faith without works is dead.’
There is also baptism, which is when the Holy Spirit begins to guide you.
In Acts, we see the universal church being practiced, and Paul was a messenger of that church who was sent out to dispute false teachings outside of them. So we’re all called into that universal church.
Romans 10:17 also reads…
17Thus faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ.
So to stretch that even further, we have to be listening to Christ’s true church as believers because faith is what is heard, not what’s read by ourselves which is subject to a wide variety of outside interpretations.
And further, in my own understanding, Christ says if you do not eat of his flesh and drink his blood, you have no life in you. So you have to be in communion with His church.
So remember the basics! Christ will continue to call all of us into His church, as he did me last year. The beauty of the Christian life is that Christ keeps calling us to take further steps into His church, and I don’t know why any of us would take a step back and say no.
A
Aussieman88
Guest
This is a leaflet written by CATHOLIC TRUTH PUBLICATIONS:
If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.
If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534, because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to re-marry.
If you are Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.
If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.
If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1601.
If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.
If you are Protestant Episcopelian, your religion was an offshoot of the church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.
If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.
If you are Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.
If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.
If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.
If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1979 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.
If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as ‘Church of the Nazarene,’ ‘Pentecostal Gospel,’ ‘Holiness Church,’ Pilgrim Hoiliness Church,’ ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses,’ your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past hundred years.
If you are Roman Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by jesus Christ, the Son of god, and it is still the same Church.
I will share my experience with my brother who was raised Catholic turned Anglican, turned Calvary Gospel, turned Faith Tabernacle in another post. He believes all Catholics are going to hell…
Shoshana
I love this. So true.
But do you have to be Catholic to be saved? No. The sins of their fathers might be visited upon the sons but the Judgement of the son will not be made according to the fathers sins. Each will be judged according to his own actions.
C
clfire
Guest
I love this. So true.
But do you have to be Catholic to be saved? No. The sins of their fathers might be visited upon the sons but the Judgement of the son will not be made according to the fathers sins. Each will be judged according to his own actions.
It is my hope that God-loving and God-fearing Proestants can be saved…but it doesn’t seem to be shapng up that way…as a Catholic I have to accept the Church teachings as true…and I can’t seem to hear from any theologians as WHAT does a Protestant have to understand before he/she KNOWS that it is the Catholic teachings they must follow to be saved…
C
clfire
Guest
I didm’t post the quote on my last comment correctly…the only one that’s mine is the last paragraph…the other belong to the quoter…
- Status