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catharina
Guest
You don’t understand/comprehend. Perhaps you can’t.I did not leave out anything.
I repeat the CCC quote here:
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louey
Guest
Catharina, you are mistaken. The naturalYour quote 2072 is preceded by this:
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Part Three, Section 2, Life in Christ: 2070, stating simply that ~ the Ten Commandments belong to God’s revelation. ~ The ENTIRE SECTION refers to Life in Christ and the way in which the Ten Commandments are engraved in the human heart by God through Baptism. You should read ALL of Part Three, Section 2, rather than taking a few lines out of context. The Ten Commandments do not land in the human heart as part of the natural law.
law written upon each man’s heart are the ten commandments.
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fix
Guest
With Irenaeus, the Decalogue is interpreted as a preparation for friendship with God and justice towards our neighbour (n. 2063). If thus on the one hand the Decalogue is seen completely in the context of the covenant and salvation history, as an event of word and response, nevertheless, it is manifested at the same time as a rational ethics, as a reminder of what reason is truly able to perceive. We cite Ireneaus again: “From the beginning, God had implanted in the heart of man the precepts of the natural law. Then he was content to remind him of them. This was the Decalogue (Adv. haeres. 4, 15, 1)” (n. 2070). This is an important trait in the ethics of the Catechism: it was the call to reason and to man’s ability to understand. The moral teaching developed from the Decalogue is rational morality, which certainly lives with the reason, which God has given to us, while with His word, He reminds us of what is deeply inscribed in the soul of everyone…
ADDRESS OF CARDINAL JOSEPH RATZINGER
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catharina
Guest
The law was ~ love God, love one another. ~ The reminder was the Decalogue, revealed in total by God as the Ten Commandments.
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louey
Guest
Yes, the first three commandments are about the love of the one true God, and the moral commandments are the next 7; which are the ten commandments. The laws written upon each man’s heart. Romans 2The law was ~ love God, love one another. ~ The reminder was the Decalogue, revealed in total by God as the Ten Commandments.
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catharina
Guest
Read Romans 2: 11-16.Yes, the first three commandments are about the love of the one true God, and the moral commandments are the next 7; which are the ten commandments. The laws written upon each man’s heart. Romans 2
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louey
Guest
Yes? And your point is???Read Romans 2: 11-16.
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mgrfin
Guest
As far as I am concerned, along with St. Thomas Aquinas, the natural law is enscribed in the hearts and minds of mankind. The Decalogue was a revelation by God to the Israelites, and it was the heart and center of the Old Covenant between God and man.This is from the CCC:
“Do good”, 'Avoid evil", ‘do to your brother what you would wish to be done to you’. Those are enscribed in the hearts of all men, at least we can argue that they are.
But,
Do you believe that “I am the Lord thy God; thou shalt not have strange gods before Me” is inscribed in the hearts and minds of some lowly tribe in Africa, 400 years before Christ?
Do you believe that “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain” is written in the souls of mankind?
Do you believe “Remember thou keep holy the Lord’s day” was required of pagan tribes in Asia Minor?
It is not reasonable to ask us to believe that these commandments were written into the hearts and minds of all mankind?
God didn’t believe they were enscribed, that is why he gave them to Moses, who wrote them down.
St. Thomas wouldn’t argue that the 10 commandments were anything but Revelation; neither do I.
peace
F
fix
Guest
2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109
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mgrfin
Guest
There seems to be a little too much poetry going on here.2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109
peace
C
catharina
Guest
Ditto - and so the Church teaches.As far as I am concerned, along with St. Thomas Aquinas, the natural law is enscribed in the hearts and minds of mankind. The Decalogue was a revelation by God to the Israelites, and it was the heart and center of the Old Covenant between God and man.
“Do good”, 'Avoid evil", ‘do to your brother what you would wish to be done to you’. Those are enscribed in the hearts of all men, at least we can argue that they are.
But,
Do you believe that “I am the Lord thy God; thou shalt not have strange gods before Me” is inscribed in the hearts and minds of some lowly tribe in Africa, 400 years before Christ?
Do you believe that “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain” is written in the souls of mankind?
Do you believe “Remember thou keep holy the Lord’s day” was required of pagan tribes in Asia Minor?
It is not reasonable to ask us to believe that these commandments were written into the hearts and minds of all mankind?
God didn’t believe they were enscribed, that is why he gave them to Moses, who wrote them down.
St. Thomas wouldn’t argue that the 10 commandments were anything but Revelation; neither do I.
peace
D
DustinsDad
Guest
Yes - it is the moral prinicipal to seek the One True God and to reject false gods. It is written into all of our hearts - pagans living before Christ had to struggle in darkness doing the best they could in ignorance while striving for this Truth, that in the fullness of time, came to them - in Jesus Christ.…But, Do you believe that “I am the Lord thy God; thou shalt not have strange gods before Me” is inscribed in the hearts and minds of some lowly tribe in Africa, 400 years before Christ?
Absolutely - it is the moral principal by which we must recognize God’s supremacy over us and must give him our humble submission, respect, and awe.…Do you believe that “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain” is written in the souls of mankind?
Yes again, it’s the moral principle whereby God demands and has a right to our worship of Him, our love of Him, and our thanksgiving to him. And we have a duty and responsibility to offer him these things. And of the pagans who never heard of Christ, they struggle in darkness searching for Him doing the best they can until that wonderful awesome day when the Church announces to them the Good News.…Do you believe “Remember thou keep holy the Lord’s day” was required of pagan tribes in Asia Minor?
DustinsDad
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fix
Guest
The ten commandments are an expression of God’s plan of good for us. Before giving us the ten commandments on tablets of stone through Moses on Mt. Sinai, God first engraved the ten Commandments in the human heart, in human nature, so much so that peoples and cultures not yet reached by the Gospel of Jesus Christ understand, more or less, the ten commandments. That is the will of God for us, that is the natural law, or, if you like, the eternal law of God with reference to us humans. That is God’s, the Maker’s instructions for us…
I have quoted the CCC, Cardinal Ratzinger, and Cardinal Arinze.
Are they all too poetic?
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mgrfin
Guest
We have the natural law, and we have the Decalogue. They are not the same.Yes - it is the moral prinicipal to seek the One True God and to reject false gods. It is written into all of our hearts - pagans living before Christ had to struggle in darkness doing the best they could in ignorance while striving for this Truth, that in the fullness of time, came to them - in Jesus Christ.
Absolutely - it is the moral principal by which we must recognize God’s supremacy over us and must give him our humble submission, respect, and awe.
Yes again, it’s the moral principle whereby God demands and has a right to our worship of Him, our love of Him, and our thanksgiving to him. And we have a duty and responsibility to offer him these things. And of the pagans who never heard of Christ, they struggle in darkness searching for Him doing the best they can until that wonderful awesome day when the Church announces to them the Good News.
DustinsDad
The Gentiles were worshipping false gods. To them, those gods were real. The God we worship is the God of Revelation, like the 10 commandments He gave us to obey, as part of the Old Covenant: “I will be your God, and you will be my people”.
“2. Human Freedom in and according to God’s Ordering
These will now be the points for our reflections. First of all, human freedom is in accordance with God’s ordering, but it has to align itself to God’s plan. God is good. He alone is good (cf: Mt 19:17). He is goodness itself. He created us. He loves us. He knows perfectly well what is good for us. God has written this law into our nature. The ten commandments are an expression of God’s plan of good for us. Before giving us the ten commandments on tablets of stone through Moses on Mt. Sinai, God first engraved the ten Commandments in the human heart, in human nature, so much so that peoples and cultures not yet reached by the Gospel of Jesus Christ understand, more or less, the ten commandments. That is the will of God for us, that is the natural law, or, if you like, the eternal law of God with reference to us humans. That is God’s, the Maker’s instructions for us.” Arinze
It is a real stretch for me to accept that the Decalogue and the natural law are the same. But, it is not a real issue. If that is what you want to believe, you are free to do so.
Charity and prayers in our hearts
peace
T
theoprofessor
Guest
THIS IS THE TEACHING OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Accept it???This is the most authoritative citation the Catholic Church has expressed with regard to EENS.
Everything listed above that is contrary to this statement is either flat out wrong, vague or completely speculative private opinion.
THIS IS THE TEACHING OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Accept it.
"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, **unless before **death they are joined with Her; and that **so important is the unity **of this ecclesiastical body that **only those remaining within this **unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and **they alone **can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. **No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood **for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)
Let us leave the teaching of the Catholic Church to those in whom it has been entrusted–the Magisterium. This is certainly not the teaching of the Catholic according the CCC. I refer you to the following:
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p3.htm
Please read carefully
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louey
Guest
AMEN!!! To those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, this poster has just said, “this is certainly not the teaching of the catholic according to the CCC.” The line has been drawn, do you stand with the one true Church of Christ, the Catholic Church, or do you embrace the heresies conceived at VII, reflected, taught in this non-catholic catechism. Your salvation depends on your desire to do the will of God.THIS IS THE TEACHING OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Accept it???
Let us leave the teaching of the Catholic Church to those in whom it has been entrusted–the Magisterium. This is certainly not the teaching of the Catholic according the CCC. I refer you to the following:
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p3.htm
Please read carefully
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bobzills
Guest
Would you say that the teaching has changed from how it was declared by Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441, to how it is declared now by the CCC? Or is it exactly the same teaching?THIS IS THE TEACHING OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Accept it???
Let us leave the teaching of the Catholic Church to those in whom it has been entrusted–the Magisterium. This is certainly not the teaching of the Catholic according the CCC. I refer you to the following:
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p3.htm
Please read carefully
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louey
Guest
What does it matter what he says. What do you say?Would you say that the teaching has changed from how it was declared by Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441, to how it is declared now by the CCC? Or is it exactly the same teaching?
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stmaria
Guest
Originally Posted by GerardP
**This is the most authoritative citation the Catholic Church has expressed with regard to EENS. **Everything listed above that is contrary to this statement is either flat out wrong, vague or completely speculative private opinion.
“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)
Code of Canon LawTHIS IS THE TEACHING OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Accept it???
Let us leave the teaching of the Catholic Church to those in whom it has been entrusted–the Magisterium. This is certainly not the teaching of the Catholic according the CCC. I refer you to the following:
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p3.htm
Please read carefully
Can. 748 §1. All persons** are bound to seek the truth **in those things which regard God and his Church and **by virtue of divine law are bound by the obligation **and possess the right of embracing and observing the truth which they have come to know.
1917 Code of Canon Law 1322/2 … all men are bound by divine law to embrace the true Church of God
Professor, are you saying men are** not bound by divine law **to embrace the Catholic Church?
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