Salvation requires belief in Mary's Perpetual VIRGINITY?

[jmcrae]

I did not interpret the question in that way. Most protestant churches do not believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary but they do believe in the Virgin Birth. Does that mean they are not saved? Remember, because of valid baptism, they too share in a life of grace and they too have the Catholic scriptures - the Bible. And again, Jesus is the ONLY mediator between God and humankind. Mary is our intercessor BECAUSE She too is our mother and mother of the Church. And because of her immaculate conception, she too shares in our salvation, but you can’t say that we are not saved because one or another does not accept (or understand) a dogma of the Catholic Church. I am here speaking of our separated brethren in the Lord.

Everything given by God to the Church is necessary for salvation, for everyone who is to be saved, whether within the Church, or outside of it. There are not different rules for those outside the Church; it’s just that they are much more likely to be invincibly ignorant. But if they have heard of the doctrine and rejected it, they have no recourse to Sacramental Confession, even if they repent of it later, so if they do that even once, then that’s the end of the line for them - unless they subsequently convert to the Catholic faith and go to Confession, of course.

 

[LilyM]

I did not interpret the question in that way. Most protestant churches do not believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary but they do believe in the Virgin Birth. Does that mean they are not saved? Remember, because of valid baptism, they too share in a life of grace and they too have the Catholic scriptures - the Bible. And again, Jesus is the ONLY mediator between God and humankind. Mary is our intercessor BECAUSE She too is our mother and mother of the Church. And because of her immaculate conception, she too shares in our salvation, but you can’t say that we are not saved because one or another does not accept (or understand) a dogma of the Catholic Church. I am here speaking of our separated brethren in the Lord.

My apologies - I meant to say of course that for CATHOLICS all the Marian dogmas are binding on us and wilful non-assent to any of 'em is a grave sin.

As such, for Catholics it is a matter of salvation and damnation that we must hold to them. ‘To whom much is given (in this case truths about Christ, which all the Marian dogmas are based upon really) from him much will be expected (ie assent to all dogmas)’ and all that.

I didn’t mean to say that they are necessarily binding on non-Catholics, although for those who are well-exposed to the Marian dogmas and wifully refuse to accept them it possibly applies too.

 

[peary]

God reads our hearts - not our dogmas!! LOL

 

[peary]

The vast majority of our separated brethren are clueless when it comes to Catholic dogma on Mary, or Mariology in particular. To them, it all appears as if we are ‘worshipping’ Mary rather than honoring her. And, depending on the culture in which the blessed mother has been introduced, you have to admit that, in some cases, it certainly appears that way!

 

[Mannyfit75]

Common premise:

Protestant: Mary is not my Mother.

Catholic: She is so because through Christ, we are made brothers and sisters in Christ. Since Mary is the Mother of Jesus Christ, we can rightly call her our “spiritual mother.”

Protestant: We are only a brother and sister in Christ because of the Father.

Catholic: Ok. In that case, I won’t call my natural mother my mother.

Protestant: Why?

Catholic: By your logic, only through the father we are made brothers and sisters. We don’t need a mother.



Does this sound logical to you? Be honest with yourself and use your brains, my Protestant brothers and sisters.

My brothers and sisters in Christ,

Through our baptism we have been made brothers and sisters in Christ. We become the adapted daughters and sons of God, the Father. Mary, being the beloved handmaiden, the daughter of his first fruits, is Mother of Our brother, Jesus Christ. She has in a way become our spiritual mother.

 

[LilyM]

God reads our hearts - not our dogmas!! LOL

Yes but our hearts have to be humbly obedient and assent to His truth, which is revealed in its fulness by His church - for us that’s the Catholic Church. To reject what He reveals through the Catholic Church is, for Catholics, to reject Himself.

Jesus himself told the Apostles to obey the Pharisees and listen to their teachings, as personally sinful as they were, because they ‘sit in the seat of Moses’. We must do the same.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Yes but our hearts have to be humbly obedient and assent to His truth, which is revealed in its fulness by His church - for us that’s the Catholic Church. To reject what He reveals through the Catholic Church is, for Catholics, to reject Himself.

Jesus himself told the Apostles to obey the Pharisees and listen to their teachings, as personally sinful as they were, because they ‘sit in the seat of Moses’. We must do the same.

[SIGN]AMEN[/SIGN]

 

[Keikiolu]

God reads our hearts - not our dogmas!! LOL

Quite obviously you have no idea what “dogma” actually means.

If you DID, you’d realize that your dogmas ARE the contents of your heart.

The only question is to what extent your dogmas are well-formed.

To the extent that they differ from the Church is the extent that they are poorly formed.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[Keikiolu]

I did not interpret the question in that way. Most protestant churches do not believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary but they do believe in the Virgin Birth. Does that mean they are not saved? Remember, because of valid baptism, they too share in a life of grace and they too have the Catholic scriptures - the Bible. And again, Jesus is the ONLY mediator between God and humankind. Mary is our intercessor BECAUSE She too is our mother and mother of the Church. And because of her immaculate conception, she too shares in our salvation,…

but you can’t say that we are not saved because one or another does not accept (or understand) a dogma of the Catholic Church. I am here speaking of our separated brethren in the Lord.

If one doesn’t understand the necessity of the perpetual virginity then one can’t very well be culpable for it.

But if one does understand it and simply refuses to accept it, then one is cuplable for that sin.

The sin is actively denying God by denying His word.

But,… since no one but God can REALLY know if anyone knows and rejects this dogma, then only God can, and will, pronounce judgement based in part on this “knowledge”.

So, we’re right back to the start, which is that salvation DOES require belief in the TRUTH, but how much truth you accept AS truth, and from where, is between you and God.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[peary]

Quite obviously you have no idea what “dogma” actually means.

If you DID, you’d realize that your dogmas ARE the contents of your heart.

.

That is rather condescending as an answer. A dogma is an incontrovertible truth of the Faith. They are the contents of one’s Faith.

 

[Keikiolu]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keikiolu forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
*Quite obviously you have no idea what “dogma” actually means.

If you DID, you’d realize that your dogmas ARE the contents of your heart.*

That is rather condescending as an answer. A dogma is an incontrovertible truth of the Faith. They are the contents of one’s Faith.

And as the contents of one’s faith, they are the contents of one’s heart.

You said:
Quote:

Originally Posted by peary forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
God reads our hearts - not our dogmas!! LOL

​

…now if you KNOW that dogmas are indeed what God reads, as they are the contents of our hearts,… what exactly were you trying to say…?

 

[peary]

Nothing, right now. It’s time to move on to other avenues of thought:thumbsup:

 

[Keikiolu]

Nothing, right now. It’s time to move on to other avenues of thought:thumbsup:

Thought…?

Is that what that was…?

It looked rather more like a massive retreat back into “Help me MOMMIE!” land to me.

Anyway,… nice to see a gracious loser with a blue-thumby-smiley as a parting shot.

Love you too, dude.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.