Salvation requires belief in Mary's Perpetual VIRGINITY?

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Crumpy said:
please see post # 40
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I read it. It deals with the issue of Immaculate conception. Not with the idea of perpetual virginity.

Protestants have no problem with that verse. Do you have another one? One that supports perpetual virginity?
 
Here is a link to the Catholic Answers Website with information on Mary’s Perpetual Virginity. It should answer a lot of your questions.

catholic.com/library/mary_ever_virgin.asp

Also, here is what the CCC says:
  • 499 The deepening of faith in the virginal motherhood led the Church to confess Mary’s real and perpetual virginity even in the act of giving birth to the Son of God made man.154 In fact, Christ’s birth "did not diminish his mother’s virginal integrity but sanctified it."155 And so the liturgy of the Church celebrates Mary as Aeiparthenos, the “Ever-virgin”.156 *
It also goes on to say…
  • 500 Against this doctrine the objection is sometimes raised that the Bible mentions brothers and sisters of Jesus.157 The Church has always understood these passages as not referring to other children of the Virgin Mary. In fact James and Joseph, “brothers of Jesus”, are the sons of another Mary, a disciple of Christ, whom St. Matthew significantly calls “the other Mary”.158 They are close relations of Jesus, according to an Old Testament expression.159*
Hope this helps! :o
 
AgnosTheist said:
I suppose you have a ‘yes’ answer to this question:

This means that every non-catholic christians (who dont believe the idea) are false christians?
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One is a true Christian if one has recieved a valid ( Trinitarian) Baptism.

But that is not guarantee of Salvation, one must also believe, to the extent one has learned, the teachings of the Church.

Some Christians are ignorant of the teachings of the Church, they are not culpable to the extent of their ignorance.

Others have learned what the Church teaches, but actively reject it. Their salvation is in peril. But that is not a denial of their Christianity, only their personal sanctity.
 
AgnosTheist said:
I read it. It deals with the issue of Immaculate conception. Not with the idea of perpetual virginity.

Protestants have no problem with that verse. Do you have another one? One that supports perpetual virginity?
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I don’t want to totally derail the thread. But I already mentioned that no one was able to touch the Ark except the High Priest. In typology, that is also about the perpetual virginity of Mary. Also there is Ez 44:2 (He said to me: This gate is to remain closed; it is not to be opened for anyone to enter by it; since the LORD, the God of Israel, has entered by it, it shall remain closed.)

There may be a typology thread already open or maybe you can start one. It is fascinating. (Although, personally, I find Mary’s question to the angel “how can this be?..” most compelling. The question makes no sense if she was planning marital relations.)
 
AgnosTheist said:
^ As a NON-christian I dont think the perpetual virginity is realistic, unless Joseph was gay. If you are a catholic, please answer the question. Thanks. 🙂
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This is a example of stupidity and/or ignorance. Ignorance because perpetual virginity is not only a dogma related to sex but also to the virgin birth (still virgin after having given birth). Stupidity because of the thought that a man must be gay if he is not having sex with a woman.

Our salvation is not absolutely based on the virginity of Mary. That would put a limit on God. However, that it is the way that God planned our salvation, it makes sense and now it is up to us to accept it.
 
Cristiano said:
perpetual virginity is not only a dogma related to sex but also to the virgin birth (still virgin after having given birth).
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who said it wasnt?
Cristiano said:
Stupidity because of the thought that a man must be gay if he is not having sex with a woman.
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A man who is legally married to a woman, shares the bed with her every night, and not moved into having sex with his wife…must either be gay or medically impotent. That or he must have been a Martian. :cool: As a wife, Mary had the moral obligation of sexually giving in to her husband.
 
AgnosTheist said:
^ As a NON-christian I dont think the perpetual virginity is realistic, unless Joseph was gay. If you are a catholic, please answer the question. Thanks. 🙂
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What a sad statement. Not everyone runs their life by their sexual urges. It is sad to see that you feel that one must either be gay or on top of every women in their sight. Love does not always equal sex.

My heart breaks for you Agnos.
 
Now, if you would have left the word “Perpetual” out, then I might have agreed with you.
Mary was a virgin for the purpose of bringing into the flesh the son of God, fathered by God and not by the seed of man.
It is also a picture of us all giving birth to the spirit of Jesus in us, to bear fruit of His love.

Israel a virgin (by selection) is also a similitude of Mary.

Key point: Jesus’ blood is whose blood was shed in redemption for the sins of the world.
If anybody is to get glory, honor and praise, would it not be Him?

Question: If Christ is born in you, what does that make you?
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Are you giving birth to the spirit of Christ into this world?

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

And if Christ be born in you, would that make you a virgin, chaste, washed in the blood of Christ, to bare the fruit of His love amongst the world?

Peace>>>AJ
 
AgnosTheist said:
A man who is legally married to a woman, shares the bed with her every night, and not moved into having sex with his wife…must either be gay or medically impotent. That or he must have been a Martian. :cool: As a wife, Mary had the moral obligation of sexually giving in to her husband.
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Again a lot of ignorance and/or stupidity!!

1- Who did say that Joseph did not have a sexual desire toward his wife? The Catholic Church only states that he was chaste.

2- Humans given their intellect (at least some) are able to control their urges.

3- What is medical impotency? The inability of sexual performance does not take away from the sexual urges. Some impotent men have proven a great sexual depravity. On the other side a physically healthy man can still be unable to perform because of psychological issues.

4- Who defines the moral obligations of Mary the mother of God?
 
I believe 100 percent that Mary was a virgin when her son and our Savior was born. But Mary is not the core of my salvation Jesus Christ is. I focus on Christ
 
I too had difficulty with this… reading and listening to various speakers has helped tremendously…

I have a question if you think Joseph may have wanted to have sex with Mary…

Would you think yourself worthy of the deed to someone you believed brought Jesus into this world? Someone obviously chosen by God? This was no “ordinary” relationship, one can assume. So, no. Pertpetual virginity was easier than I thought it would be to accept.
 
To my understanding, salvation is not effected either way.
So believe as you like.

Peace>>>AJ
 
AgnosTheist said:
Is this true? If you dont believe in the perpetual virginity, your faith in Jesus and your good works are for nothing? If you dont believe in the perpetual virginity, you cannot be saved? This means that every non-catholic christians (who dont believe the idea) are false christians?
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With the exception of those who don’t know about it at all or don’t understand it properly, all Christians are required to believe everything that is true about Jesus, including the fact that His mother was a virgin throughout her entire life. We cannot invent a story of our own about Jesus, and then say that we believe in the same Jesus who founded our Church, died on the Cross to save us from our sins, and then rose again from the dead to open the gates of Heaven to the human race.

Either we believe in the real Jesus, virgin mother and all, or we believe in a fictional character of our own invention. Only one of these two has the power to save us from the fires of Hell at the end of our life. 😉
 
Ezekiel 44:2
The LORD said to me, "This gate shall be shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it, for the LORD God of Israel has entered by it; therefore it shall be shut.

The salvation is only obtained by those who live by the laws of the one holy Catholic and apostolic Church.
 
AgnosTheist said:
I read it. It deals with the issue of Immaculate conception. Not with the idea of perpetual virginity.

Protestants have no problem with that verse. Do you have another one? One that supports perpetual virginity?
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Regarding post #40: There is no connection to the idea of Mary’s virginity and her immaculate conception. Please re-read post 40.

Mary was a virgin, before, during, and after the nativity of Jesus. That’s perpetual virginity, not immaculate conception.
 
look3467 said:
To my understanding, salvation is not effected either way.
So believe as you like.

Peace>>>AJ
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Actually it is.

To state that Mary and Joseph had normal relations and further children is to deny that her body (and her flesh which became HIS flesh as God-made-man) was a living temple of God the Son. Holy and sacred and untouchable as the Ark of the Covenant or the Burning Bush or the Holy of Holies in Jerusalem.

Thus it is actually to deny that Christ was both true God and true man - ONE person with two natures, divine and human. Mary was the mother of the whole person, not just of one of the natures. Just as if I am a lawyer my mother is mother of a lawyer even if she didn’t give me my degree or my job.

In other words you are failing to acknowledge who and what Christ truly was. Which failure could seriously compromise your salvation.

Point being the Marian doctrines are never just about Mary, but point to truths about Christ Himself.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Or of that of a wife? If my husband said that to me he would learn what a celibate life meant PDQ.
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If you married a man and refused to ever have sex with him, not even once for years. what kind of person does that make you? Someone who is not nice.
 
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