Salvation

[Nick_Jones]

I asked:

If Adam and Eve didn’t become evil, then why were Adam and Eve banned from the garden after they fell?

Why?

Gen. 3:22
“And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

Exactly! After the fall of mankind into evil, it was God’s intention to establish a very different kind of “tree of life.” The cross. Because of mankind’s fall into sin and rebellion against God, it was God’s intention to put the whole world under a curse–even the curse of death. Now, the “tree of life” is the cross of Christ, who paid the full price for the sins of His sheep. To God be the glory!

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

well, since I was informed that I hadn’t posted in a while, I figured I should get busy! This is my fourth post today.

While I am still studying, and may be getting this wrong, salvation in the RCA church seems so much more sure than in the RC church…

RCA = ?​

I’m currently reading a John Salza book, and he even says that good works don’t just flow from a Christian to prove that they are living a Christian life, but good works have salvific importance. Even though these are works done in and b/c of the grace of God, they are still works.

One post I read said something to the effect of “I hope I get to heaven” and that made me sad. Doesnt’ John 5:13 say that he taught what he taught to let us know what we need to be saved? Should there be such a question, or a disconnect between us here on earth and the Lord?

oneseeker

**Some qq. for you: **​

• Are works the basis of salvation ?
• Are they evidence of it ?
• **Is salvation being confused with justification ? **
  **Grace that is earned is not grace. Salvation is a very misleading term, because it can be used indifferently for: **
• justification
• regeneration
• sanctification
• glorification
  **- either separately, or in any combination, or as an entire economy. There are also the issues of **
• imputation or the denial of it
• whether justification is purely forensic or not
• **whether justification is both forensic & internal, or not **
  As well the issue of whether one is talking about Catholic or Protestant ideas about salvation; Catholicism seems to treat [what in Protestant theologies are designated as] sanctification & justification together, whereas Protestantism doesn’t. Unless we know which of the two we are discussing in a given instance, there is almost infinite room for misunderstanding

And then there is the issue of sacramental theology, & its bearing on the above.

 

[ChrisWRIT]

Exactly! After the fall of mankind into evil, it was God’s intention to establish a very different kind of “tree of life.” The cross. Because of mankind’s fall into sin and rebellion against God, it was God’s intention to put the whole world under a curse–even the curse of death. Now, the “tree of life” is the cross of Christ, who paid the full price for the sins of His sheep.

Are you claiming that Jesus cross was sitting in the garden of Eden & that Adam & Eve would have taken a bite from it if God hadn’t banished them?

You asked:

If Adam and Eve didn’t become evil, then why were Adam and Eve banned from the garden after they fell?

Gen. 3 doesn’t say that Adam & Eve became evil, or that they “fell into evil”.

It says they had become like God, “knowing good and evil.”

The curse of God was in punishment for their disobedience, not for “becoming evil.” One of the consequences God warned them about was death.

Why were they banished from the garden? Because they could not be allowed to eat from the tree of life.

To God be the glory!

Amen!

Chris

 

[bookgirl32]

Hi bookgirl,

Are you saying that God makes the grace that saves available to everyone?

Oh yes I am!!!

 

[bookgirl32]

I have never tried to suggest that our will being turned away from God IS a complete and utter ignorance of God. It isn’t so much a problem of ignorance as it is rebellion against God.

Oh no no no, you made an allegory between unregenerated man and a dead body / unconcious person, several times. Insisting that we are not even aware of our need for a Savior.

 

[bookgirl32]

I asked:

Exactly! After the fall of mankind into evil, it was God’s intention to establish a very different kind of “tree of life.” The cross. Because of mankind’s fall into sin and rebellion against God, it was God’s intention to put the whole world under a curse–even the curse of death. Now, the “tree of life” is the cross of Christ, who paid the full price for the sins of His sheep. To God be the glory!

It was never God’s intention to put the whole world under a curse. Humans put the whole world “under a curse”.

 

[Odell]

1. By His instruction to sell his possessions and give to the poor, Jesus shows the rich man his error. He loved his money too much to part with it. He had broken the first commandment. The rich man was NOT the good man he had thought he was. Only God is good.

Here is the impossible command God has given to all mankind:

So now you are telling us it is impossible to keep the first commandment :hypno: :hypno:

“YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND HIM ONLY SHALL YOU SERVE”

“HIM ONLY SHALL YOU SERVE”

"YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME"

I bolded the last part because you specifically used it in a post.

Your telling us it is impossible to have no other Gods before Jesus

even worse we dont have to

You still have not answered my post in regards to gunophore passsage in Deut

Oh no no no, you made an allegory between unregenerated man and a dead body / unconcious person, several times. Insisting that we are not even aware of our need for a Savior.

He will wiggle out of this one way or another I dont know how but it will be interesting :coffeeread:

 

[sandusky]

So now you are telling us it is impossible to keep the first commandment :hypno: :hypno:

“YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND HIM ONLY SHALL YOU SERVE”

“HIM ONLY SHALL YOU SERVE”

"YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME"

I bolded the last part because you specifically used it in a post.

Your telling us it is impossible to have no other Gods before Jesus

even worse we dont have to

You still have not answered my post in regards to gunophore passsage in Deut

He will wiggle out of this one way or another I dont know how but it will be interesting :coffeeread:

 

[Nick_Jones]

It was never God’s intention to put the whole world under a curse. Humans put the whole world “under a curse”.

Are you saying that God had no idea what human beings were going to do with the free will that He created them with–that it was just an unfortunate and unforeseen accident?

 

[Nick_Jones]

Oh no no no, you made an allegory between unregenerated man and a dead body / unconcious person, several times. Insisting that we are not even aware of our need for a Savior.

I don’t see any inconsistency in saying that those who are spiritually dead will not (and therefore cannot) view themselves as utterly sinful and lost, and in desperate need of the Savior. If I’m wrong about any of this, please show me where I’ve gotten it wrong.

 

[Nick_Jones]

Are you claiming that Jesus cross was sitting in the garden of Eden & that Adam & Eve would have taken a bite from it if God hadn’t banished them?

No.

Gen. 3 doesn’t say that Adam & Eve became evil, or that they “fell into evil”.

It says they had become like God, “knowing good and evil.”

Are you saying that Adam and Eve didn’t become evil by their falling away from God?

 

[Nick_Jones]

I asked:

Are you saying that God makes the grace that saves available to everyone?

Oh yes I am!!!

Then why are some people going to hell?

 

[Nick_Jones]

Why were they banished from the garden? Because they could not be allowed to eat from the tree of life.

Because they disobeyed God, or because they had become aware of good and evil?

 

[Nick_Jones]

So now you are telling us it is impossible to keep the first commandment

Yes. All of us have our own idols that we worship. Not one of us worships God alone. All of us break this one:

“YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND HIM ONLY SHALL YOU SERVE”

 

[Odell]

Yes. All of us have our own idols that we worship. Not one of us worships God alone. All of us break this one:

Oh so really if I wanted to I could worship MARY and it wouldnt affect my salvation?

And by the way the Church does not teach this Im just saying acording to Nick it doesnt matter it would not affect my salvation

another question

what did Jesus mean by it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of God?

 

[Odell]

Nick

What is it Nick?

If it is possible with the Grace of God you left that out of your little formula by the way, then you cant use Mk 10:21 in responce to guanophore passage of Deut 30:19-20
YOU still have a problem with this verse

And we would like you to answer gunaophore question?

 

[bookgirl32]

I asked:

Then why are some people going to hell?

Because they don’t accept it!!!

God: “Here’s your free ticket to Heaven”
Person: “Hmmm, nope, don’t think I want it”
God: “Okay, I can’t force you, I’ll keep offering as often as I can”

 

[Nick_Jones]

If it is possible with the Grace of God you left that out of your little formula by the way, then you cant use Mk 10:21 in responce to guanophore passage of Deut 30:19-20
YOU still have a problem with this verse

And we would like you to answer gunaophore question?

By the grace of God, we are credited as perfectly obedient and righteous through our God-given faith in Jesus. I don’t think that this (the gospel message) is in any way contradicted by the teaching of Jesus in Mark 10.

 

[Nick_Jones]

Because they don’t accept it!!!

God: “Here’s your free ticket to Heaven”
Person: “Hmmm, nope, don’t think I want it”
God: “Okay, I can’t force you, I’ll keep offering as often as I can”

Well, it seems to me that wanting what is GOOD would most likely be the “fruit” of a good person, and wanting what is BAD would most likely be the “fruit” of a bad person. Are you more GOOD than those who say, “Hmmm, nope, don’t think I want it”? I’m just trying to determine the source of your GOODNESS, or HOW you are capable of using your free will better than those who don’t want the free ticket to heaven.

 

[Nick_Jones]

Oh so really if I wanted to I could worship MARY and it wouldnt affect my salvation?

If you have any desire to worship Mary, then you have no reason to think that you are saved.

another question

what did Jesus mean by it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of God?

The same thing He meant by this:

“With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”