Same-sex civil unions are not a religious issue

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I accept contraception and the ability of people to publicly express immoral ideas.

I would see same-sex couples in a therapeutic setting as in counseling and certainly would preach to them about how their activity is a sin, though I believe it to be sinful, it is not germane to the interaction.

We don’t live in a theocracy.
Ringil,

Sadly I percieve that accepting the right to express immorality is a far cry from supporting it. We don’t live in a theocracy. We, as Catholics, are called to participate in a Theonomy, according to JP II, Veritatis Splendor. To speak out against sin is part of that participation.
 
Ringil,

Sadly I percieve that accepting the right to express immorality is a far cry from supporting it. We don’t live in a theocracy. We, as Catholics, are called to participate in a Theonomy, according to JP II, Veritatis Splendor. To speak out against sin is part of that participation.
So why is it OK for contraception to be available to the general public (using ABC is a mortal sin) but it is not OK to have same-sex unions (homosexual sex also a mortal sin).
 
So why is it OK for contraception to be available to the general public (using ABC is a mortal sin) but it is not OK to have same-sex unions (homosexual sex also a mortal sin).
Ringil,

Who says it is OK for contraception to be available to the general public. It is available. It is not OK. It is also not OK for same-sex unions to act on their passions. They are both not OK. Why, because it is against the Moral law, that is intended to guide you to a life in Christ and for Christ.
 
I accept contraception and the ability of people to publicly express immoral ideas.

I would see same-sex couples in a therapeutic setting as in counseling and certainly would preach to them about how their activity is a sin, though I believe it to be sinful, it is not germane to the interaction.

We don’t live in a theocracy.
Pardon me if I say that using the word “theocracy” is not, as the diplomats say, helpful. We don’t live in a “democracy.”either. IAC. there is far more suppression of the right to say that homosexuality is wrong then to say the opposite. Indeed. homosexual have now acquired enough power to put their opponents in jail. And if they can, they will. These people are zealots and are out for blood.
 
I accept contraception and the ability of people to publicly express immoral ideas.

I would see same-sex couples in a therapeutic setting as in counseling and certainly would preach to them about how their activity is a sin, though I believe it to be sinful, it is not germane to the interaction.

We don’t live in a theocracy.
If we want to be Catholics then we are bound to follow Church teaching. We don’t live in fictional secular country where tolerance means only the secularists are right.

Peace,
Ed
 
If we want to be Catholics then we are bound to follow Church teaching. We don’t live in fictional secular country where tolerance means only the secularists are right.

Peace,
Ed
So Catholics cannot be mental health practitioners? Because if we told every client each time they time they were doing something that was sinful in Catholic Doctrine we would be short of clients and out of a license.
 
So Catholics cannot be mental health practitioners? Because if we told every client each time they time they were doing something that was sinful in Catholic Doctrine we would be short of clients and out of a license.
???

Ed
 
There are hundreds of Catholic priests who are licensed mental health professionals. There are quite a few Bishops who have degrees in Psychology, Counseling, and Social Work.

How could this be Ed?
 
So Catholics cannot be mental health practitioners? Because if we told every client each time they time they were doing something that was sinful in Catholic Doctrine we would be short of clients and out of a license.
Ringil,

You confuse being a practitioner with supporting sin. As a practitioner I had to deal with gay people, immoral people, sinful people and in the context of practice, I do my job without prejudice.

I, on this forum do not support sin. Some of your postings suggest that your persona as a practitioner is carried over into your beliefs. That is how I see it.
 
It occurred to me just today that perhaps all of the attacks on the Church by the homosexualists and the militant atheists will have a silver lining- to wit, it will force the lukewarm and heterodox in the Church to finally take a stand. The Church may be leaner as a result, but it will be stronger without all of the weak links.

The Catholic Church is at war with the secular world. One is either with the Church or with the secular world. There is no middle ground.
 
The Church does and She speaks with true authority.
Precisely. She has spoken. In encyclicals which include the issue of unions by name, in bishops’ conference statements which state the identical Catholic position.

Two people of any gender(s), with or without a sexual relationship, can use any variety of measures to draw up civil contracts recognizing whatever legal rights to mutual access they want. That is also a “union,” and it’s a union the content of which is claimed by the Gay Lobby is “all they want.” Which of course reveals the lie. If that’s all they wanted, they would have done so and could have done so.

What they want is public recognition, forced on the public, that their union is wonderful.
They want public, official, formal recognition as a “special category.” And they want so for the same reason that the bishops and the Vatican oppose the idea. An informed Catholic will read his or her Church’s documents, using that as the guidepost, not secular reasoning.

For years, heterosexuals seeking contractual arrangements for various reasons have drawn up such contracts, by the way, without the world knowing about it.
 
Precisely. She has spoken. In encyclicals which include the issue of unions by name, in bishops’ conference statements which state the identical Catholic position.

Two people of any gender(s), with or without a sexual relationship, can use any variety of measures to draw up civil contracts recognizing whatever legal rights to mutual access they want. That is also a “union,” and it’s a union the content of which is claimed by the Gay Lobby is “all they want.” Which of course reveals the lie. If that’s all they wanted, they would have done so and could have done so.

What they want is public recognition, forced on the public, that their union is wonderful.
They want public, official, formal recognition as a “special category.” And they want so for the same reason that the bishops and the Vatican oppose the idea. An informed Catholic will read his or her Church’s documents, using that as the guidepost, not secular reasoning.

For years, heterosexuals seeking contractual arrangements for various reasons have drawn up such contracts, by the way, without the world knowing about it.
Amen.:clapping::clapping:
 
I’m curious how it will all play out- once marriage is legally redefined to no longer mean, “one man, one woman” will those who sought its redefinition protest when others seek to become “married” after their own fashion as well? I refer to polygamous “marriages” as well as even more creative arrangements. Surely the re-definers won’t protest, for wouldn’t that be supremely hypocritical?
 
Ringil,

You confuse being a practitioner with supporting sin. As a practitioner I had to deal with gay people, immoral people, sinful people and in the context of practice, I do my job without prejudice.

I, on this forum do not support sin. Some of your postings suggest that your persona as a practitioner is carried over into your beliefs. That is how I see it.
Yes, and we know there can be licit, or illicit, cooperation with evil. Simply pretending an unjust law is acceptable because our occupation is politically driven is unacceptable.
 
I’m curious how it will all play out- once marriage is legally redefined to no longer mean, “one man, one woman” will those who sought its redefinition protest when others seek to become “married” after their own fashion as well? I refer to polygamous “marriages” as well as even more creative arrangements. Surely the re-definers won’t protest, for wouldn’t that be supremely hypocritical?
Last I checked, the homosexualists tried to distance themselves from those seeking the legalization of polygamy.
 
I would see same-sex couples in a therapeutic setting as in counseling and certainly would preach to them about how their activity is a sin, though I believe it to be sinful, it is not germane to the interaction.
I think you forgot a “not” in there; I’ll accept that you meant it to precede “preach.”

With that assumption, I would also not preach to them, in such a setting (or in any setting, frankly). Preaching is for those assigned to do so, and Jesus asked us that our interrelationships not be based on preaching.

That also does not mean providing permission, by words or actions, to acts we know to be sinful, evil, ill-advised, etc.

The clever professional – be it a physician, a psychiatrist, a psychologist, a social worker, a teacher, a counselor – will use his or her position of moral neutrality to the objective benefit of the client, appropriate to the role and the setting.

In a psychological setting, the clinician is not trying to coerce, but rather to unveil. People adopt compensating behaviors, many of which are unhealthy, stunt their maturity, act as a replacement self-medication, and otherwise displace deep hurt, disappointment, and even self-hatred. The more deep-seated the unhealthy behavior, and the more rationalized the behavior, the more difficult the unveiling (obviously). A clinician who loves the client with a professional love will pursue whatever angle he or she has to help with the uncovering.

Direct affirmation of an unhealthy lifestyle is never required. If the client is seeking that, the ethical professional ought not to provide it.
 
I’m not kidding.
The key word in my earlier statement is “tried” seeing as the homosexualists have failed in distancing themselves from the polygamists.
Oh don’t get me wrong I totally agree Crescentinus. I see why the homosexualists would try to distance themselves from polygamists while their “struggle” to legitimize same sex “marriages” is still in progress. My question is, once their agenda of forcing a majority or all of the states to recognize their same sex “marriages” is accomplished, how can the homosexualists justify opposing further “redefinition” of marriage? Will they even try? Will they see expanding redefinition as a threat to the “legitimacy” of their own “marriages?” It seems to me to be common that those who bang the hardest at the gate want to slam and lock it again once they are allowed in.

I just lost a homosexual Facebook “friend” over my posing of this question…although to be honest I did pose it in the form of satire.:whistle: Oh, well.
 
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