Same-sex couple says priest denied them communion due to relationship

[Lochias]

This priest is also trying to protect this couple from further sins of sacrilege, no doubt. (Just like you protect your young children from burning their hands on the stove by snatching their hands away, as well as teaching them.)

Taking the Eucharist in an unworthy manner is to invite all manner of not-good things to oneself. Every Catholic around the world should take that to heart.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Oral sex among married people is not a sin, as long as it ends in the proper manner.

Additionally, the difference is the Church teaches that homosexuality is disordered, whereas a man and a woman may sin in having sex before marriage, sex between opposite sex couples is not by it’s nature disordered.

The Catechism says:

1755 A morally good act requires the goodness of the object, of the end, and of the circumstances together. An evil end corrupts the action, even if the object is good in itself (such as praying and fasting “in order to be seen by men”).

The object of the choice can by itself vitiate an act in its entirety. There are some concrete acts - such as fornication - that it is always wrong to choose, because choosing them entails a disorder of the will, that is, a moral evil.

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

Also see Aquinas On Evil, 15.1: Sensuality

Hence it is clear that all sex between men and women outside legal marriage is intrinsically disordered

 

[Cider]

The Catechism says:

Also see Aquinas On Evil, 15.1: Sensuality

You’re missing the point. Homosexual sex is always disordered. Sex between people of the opposite sex is not always disordered, it’s only so in certain contexts. Unlike homosexual sex which is always disordered by it’s very nature.

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

 

[Corki]

And yet how often do you hear about fornication being a sin as opposed to gay sex being a sin? **You hear about the latter more than the former **yet the former affects far more than the latter and so many don’t know that any nonvaginal sex (including oral) between a husband and a wife is sodomy just like gay sex.

Not in my parish. In Religious Ed - for high schoolers and the adult classes, fornication and “living together” get much more time than homosexual sex. Also, living together is the number 1 reason people are excluded as Godparents and Confirmation sponsors.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

You’re missing the point. Homosexual sex is always disordered. Sex between people of the opposite sex is not always disordered, it’s only so in certain contexts. Unlike homosexual sex which is always disordered by it’s very nature.

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

Sacred Tradition has always declared that fornication is intrinsically disordered.

Fornication is also always disordered by it’s nature as is sodomy even between a man and a woman.

Not in my parish. In Religious Ed - for high schoolers and the adult classes, fornication and “living together” get much more time than homosexual sex. Also, living together is the number 1 reason people are excluded as Godparents and Confirmation sponsors.

And outside of Religious Ed?

 

[Cider]

Sacred Tradition has always declared that fornication is intrinsically disordered.

Fornication is also always disordered by it’s nature as is sodomy even between a man and a woman.

And outside of Religious Ed?

And yet you conveniently ignore the fact that sex between a man and woman is NOT intrinsically disordered at all times, unlike sex between two people of the same sex. So you are being deliberately obtuse.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

And yet you conveniently ignore the fact that sex between a man and woman is NOT intrinsically disordered at all times, unlike sex between two people of the same sex. So you are being deliberately obtuse.

My point is actually that fornication and “gay sex” are both mortal sins and intrinsically disordered thus quite comparable yet we treat them quite disproportionately.

 

[Corki]

And outside of Religious Ed?

Our pastor is pretty careful to keep homilies “G” rated so sexual sin is not usually a direct topic. But marriage is and the need to keep relations within marriage is alluded to much more often than homosexuality at all. And like I said, there is a general announcement every Confirmation cycle about what makes a suitable sponsor. (If married, must be married in the Church, if single, must not be living together.)

Other than a homily or RE, where would you expect parishioners to hear any of this?

 

[markomalley]

My point is actually that fornication and “gay sex” are both mortal sins and intrinsically disordered thus quite comparable yet we treat them quite disproportionately.

They are not both “intrinsically” disordered. Intrinsic disorder is not synonymous with mortal sin.

 

[Corki]

My point is actually that fornication and “gay sex” are both mortal sins and intrinsically disordered thus quite comparable yet we treat them quite disproportionately.

Yes, because they are not the same. Male-female sex is disordered when it is abused (i.e. sodomy, incest or fornication). When properly used within marriage it is rightly ordered. Homosexual acts are* always *disordered, thus “intrinsically” disordered. No variant of use or situation can make them rightly ordered.

 

[GangGreen]

I haven’t gone through this thread, but here’s my observations.

1. The priest is gasp CATHOLIC! What a horrible thing.
2. Homosexuals cannot have sex in a unitive and procreative way. This is also a requirement for heterosexuals in order to not commit mortal sin.
3. Since homosexuals cannot have sex in a unitive and procreative way, they cannot marry. This also applies to heterosexuals who physically cannot or desire not to ever have sex.
4. Since they cannot marry and they cannot have unitive/procreative sex, any time they do a sexual act they commit a mortal sin.
5. Anyone who is in a state of mortal sin cannot receive communion otherwise they commit a sacrilege and thus another mortal sin until they go to the Sacrament of Confession and vow to amend their lives.

 

[Brendan]

My point is actually that fornication and “gay sex” are both mortal sins and intrinsically disordered thus quite comparable yet we treat them quite disproportionately.

I agree, but I have not seen them being treated disproportionately.

If it was made known publically that a heterosexual couple were living together, I have little doubt that the priest would have done the same.

Or, more specifically, he would withheld communion until the relationship was regularized in marriage.

That solution would, of course, not be possible in the case of the referenced woman.

But that is not a disproportionate treatment, in fact, it is, by definition, proportionate.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I agree, but I have not seen them being treated disproportionately.

If it was made known publically that a heterosexual couple were living together, I have little doubt that the priest would have done the same.

Or, more specifically, he would withheld communion until the relationship was regularized in marriage.

That solution would, of course, not be possible in the case of the referenced woman.

But that is not a disproportionate treatment, in fact, it is, by definition, proportionate.

I’m sure they refuse cohabiting heterosexual couples just as much as politicians who blatantly and publicly support abortion.

Not the same solution, but it could be wait until they have stopped engaging in sexual relations (assuming they were at the time). Honestly I think the priest should have inquired as to whether the relationship as sexual or not, if so inform them that it is mortal sin and give them an opportunity for confession before the rosary so that they can receive in a state of grace and after that go into more detailed talks

I admit I’m sort of baffled how a priest didn’t know of their relationship given them being there twelve years especially considering the town has only a couple thousand families especially considering their level of involvement with the Church

 

[Corki]

I’m sure they refuse cohabiting heterosexual couples just as much as politicians who blatantly and publicly support abortion.

Not the same solution, but it could be wait until they have stopped engaging in sexual relations (assuming they were at the time). Honestly I think the priest should have inquired as to whether the relationship as sexual or not, if so inform them that it is mortal sin and give them an opportunity for confession before the rosary so that they can receive in a state of grace and after that go into more detailed talks

I admit I’m sort of baffled how a priest didn’t know of their relationship given them being there twelve years especially considering the town has only a couple thousand families especially considering their level of involvement with the Church

It doesn’t matter if their relationship was sexual. While it is certainly worse if it was, it is still a sinful state to be in a romantic same-sex relationship, calling each other partners and holding themselves out as a couple.

As was pointed out earlier in this thread, this is not a priest who has been with the parish a long time. He is probably just getting to know everyone in the parish and this information may not have been relayed to him.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

It doesn’t matter if their relationship was sexual. While it is certainly worse if it was, it is still a sinful state to be in a romantic same-sex relationship, calling each other partners and holding themselves out as a couple.

As was pointed out earlier in this thread, this is not a priest who has been with the parish a long time. He is probably just getting to know everyone in the parish and this information may not have been relayed to him.

What is romance?

 

[Nacho45]

And yet how often do you hear about fornication being a sin as opposed to gay sex being a sin? You hear about the latter more than the former yet the former affects far more than the latter and so many don’t know that any nonvaginal sex (including oral) between a husband and a wife is sodomy just like gay sex.

Because homosexuality is the chosen field of conflict at this time from those advocating sinful sexual activity. Fornication was discussed in the 70s-90s with the likes of Hugh Heffner and Larry Flynt. This is today’s battle, which is why it is discussed more often. Fornication and adultery are still discussed, but that isn’t what’s hitting the major political wave tops right now. You fight the fight where the opposition is fighting, not somewhere else, unless your goal is to let them win.

 

[Nacho45]

What is romance?

Perhaps we should shy away from semantic rabbit holes.

I’m reminded of Mr Clinton’s “That depends on what your definition of IS is” or some such nonsense. It’s a distraction of the actual topic and usually done in an attempt to derail the conversation, not saying that’s your goal.

 

[Nacho45]

The priest did the right thing and someone didn’t like it. So what? It’s going to happen. In fact, Jesus said it would happen a lot.

No one would have known if the women didn’t tell everyone. They embarrassed themselves and now everyone else realizes how little they actually know about Catholicism.

Pray for the priest for encouragement and the ladies for understanding and repentance.

 

[Corki]

What is romance?

Perhaps we should shy away from semantic rabbit holes.

I’m reminded of Mr Clinton’s “That depends on what your definition of IS is” or some such nonsense. It’s a distraction of the actual topic and usually done in an attempt to derail the conversation, not saying that’s your goal.

But to humor JdV,

I didn’t say romance, I said romantic, which Webster defines as:

ro·man·tic adjective \rō-ˈman-tik, rə-
: of, relating to, or involving love between two people

: making someone think of love : suitable for romance

: thinking about love and doing and saying things to show that you love someone

love = erros, not love=agape or fillial love

 

[Slaney]

A recent Quinnipiac University poll finds that American Catholics support same-sex marriage 60 - 31 percent, compared to 56 - 36 percent support among all U.S. adults. More devout Catholics, who attend religious services about once a week, support same- sex marriage 53 - 40 percent, while less observant Catholics support it 65 - 26 percent. Boy!..talk about disturbing!

Peace, Mark

Anyone that supports same-sex marriage is going against what God desires, & going against His Key-holder Holy Mother Church & can hardly be considered to be in uniformity with the Will of God, who desired the bonding of one man & one woman…Receiving Holy Communion in this frame of mind can hardly be considered to be in full communion with the will of God…