Same sex marriage laws

[iamrefreshed]

Everyone is missing the point that anyone can do anything they want right now. It’s happening all over the world.

The problem is that Anarchists want to legalize Anarchy. And to legalize the Hippie concept of ‘free love’ which just means sex with anyone. They are promoting the view that government = tyranny and for ‘true freedom’ they want everything they want to do to become legal.

I will not vote to legalize such things. Not out of hatred but out of an understanding that the law should respect the sanctity of what God and man have decreed. There is a statue of Moses with the Ten Commandments on the Supreme Court building.

To my fellow Catholics-

If everything is permitted, how will we raise our children?

And yes, if this is permitted, other mix and match groups of people will ask for their desired combination to be made legal. See “Beyond Same-Sex Marriage,” a proposal signed by, among others, Gloria Steinem. That is the goal - polyamory and for everyone accepting them in that “What’s the Big Deal” kind of way. There is right and there is wrong.

God bless,
Ed

I’m with you Ed. Just trying to enlighten some fellow posters with some of what is to come.

I guarantee that once you legalize SSM other ‘marriages’ will soon follow as legal. These may include incestuous and polygmous.

Don’t think so? I submit my grandparents or parents as example. They never would have believe 50 years ago that in their lifetime they would have seen SSM as legal.

 

[Daddums]

I guarantee that once you legalize SSM other ‘marriages’ will soon follow as legal. These may include incestuous and polygmous.

Not everyone thinks that is a bad thing. The author of this article doesn’t.

bimagazine.org/nonfict/pages/feature4.html

The article also indicates that there is a deliberate strategy being employed to address each issue separately rather than going for it all at once.

*Poly activists themselves seem reluctant to lobby for marriage at the moment. “It would put too much ammunition in the hands of the opponents of gay marriage,” says White. “Our brothers and sisters in the LGBT community are fighting a battle that they’re close to winning and we don’t want to do anything that would cause that fight to take a step backwards.” *

Daddums

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

Everyone is missing the point that anyone can do anything they want right now. It’s happening all over the world.

The problem is that Anarchists want to legalize Anarchy. And to legalize the Hippie concept of ‘free love’ which just means sex with anyone. They are promoting the view that government = tyranny and for ‘true freedom’ they want everything they want to do to become legal.

I will not vote to legalize such things. Not out of hatred but out of an understanding that the law should respect the sanctity of what God and man have decreed. There is a statue of Moses with the Ten Commandments on the Supreme Court building.

To my fellow Catholics-

If everything is permitted, how will we raise our children?

And yes, if this is permitted, other mix and match groups of people will ask for their desired combination to be made legal. See “Beyond Same-Sex Marriage,” a proposal signed by, among others, Gloria Steinem. That is the goal - polyamory and for everyone accepting them in that “What’s the Big Deal” kind of way. There is right and there is wrong.

God bless,
Ed

Totally agree with you.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

And I am saying that it is society’s hatred of his gayness that is causing it. If it was gayness itself that caused it why am I still here as well as many others?

Secular society, especially the media, has been having a veritable love fest (no pun intended ) with the gay rights movement for many years now. Gay “marriage” or civil unions are legal in several U. S. states (most recently New Hampshire, as of Jan 1), not to mention Canada and many parts of Europe. Gay couples have sued to be able to go to prom together at CATHOLIC SCHOOLS and have won (whatever happened to separation of church and state? I guess that’s just one way street ). Outside of orthodox Catholic and Evangelical/Fundamentalist Christian circles, society is completely pro-gay! What “hatred of gayness” are you talking about? In fact, anytime someone mentions believing that same sex relations are a sin (not even saying that someone w/ a ssa is going to hell), they are automatically labelled “homophobe”, the defination of which has apparently been changed to “a person who does not agree with and celebrate the gay lifestyle”, regardless of whether any persecution or discrimation occurs.

If it’s ones own family and friends you’re talking about, well that’s really sad, and I’m sorry. However, I was shunned by family and friends in high school when I chose to date black guys (I’m white), and I’ve talked to many (heterosexual) interracial couples who’ve been disowned b/c of their choice of partner or spouse. So that’s not just a gay thing. Families are strange and can hurt you like no one else if you go “against the grain” in any way. But as for the rest of society, it’s official: You’ve been “mainstreamed”. :yup:

 

[edwest2]

Here is what the anarchists want:

firstthings.com/onthesquare/?p=330

And above all, acceptance, as in “It’s OK.”

“Hi, This is my mom and that’s my other mom and that’s my dad but my real dad left two years ago and that’s my real sister and that’s my other sister and I’ve got some cousins, I think, but I’m not sure but my other mom is thinking of divorcing my other dad who wants to start living with his boyfriend…”

God bless,
Ed

 

[KarenNC]

Gay couples have sued to be able to go to prom together at CATHOLIC SCHOOLS and have won.

Link to something showing this please? I have found articles where couples have attempted to go and been barred and statements from the ACLU that the Catholic school system is likely within its rights as a religious organization but not where any have sued a Catholic school system for this and won.

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

Here is what the anarchists want:

firstthings.com/onthesquare/?p=330

And above all, acceptance, as in “It’s OK.”

"Hi, This is my mom and that’s my other mom and that’s my dad but my real dad left two years ago and that’s my real sister and that’s my other sister and I’ve got some cousins, I think, but I’m not sure but my other mom is thinking of divorcing my other dad who wants to start living with his boyfriend…"

God bless,
Ed

 

[KarenNC]

I have heard that they need marriage in order to make health decisions, or for property rights etc. Any one can avail themselves of power of attorney rights, wills, naming beneficiaries for life insurance etc. That really isn’t onerous for someone to do,

There are over a thousand instances in federal law and several hundred under state law affected by one’s marital status, most of which one cannot simply “avail oneself of”, regardless of how many attorneys one pays, unless one is married according to federal law (not state law and not as part of a civil union, they are not given automatic spousal rights).

religioustolerance.org/mar_bene.htm

 

[Daddums]

There are over a thousand instances in federal law and several hundred under state law affected by one’s marital status, most of which one cannot simply “avail oneself of”, regardless of how many attorneys one pays, unless one is married according to federal law (not state law and not as part of a civil union, they are not given automatic spousal rights).

religioustolerance.org/mar_bene.htm

So you agree that the government time and again has seen fit to grant special recognition to traditional marriage that it doesn’t grant to other relationships, perhaps because it has a compelling interest in traditional marriage?

BTW welcome back. We missed you during the “consenting adults” justifies HM debate.

Daddums

 

[KarenNC]

So you agree that the government time and again has seen fit to grant special recognition to traditional marriage that it doesn’t grant to other relationships, perhaps because it has a compelling interest in traditional marriage?

The poster stated a common misconception in such discussions–that the only benefits of using the term “marriage” are easily replicated by a few legal documents. I showed that this was incorrect.

The state has a compelling interest in creating stability. It has already shown that it considers that marriages that are outside of the definition of “traditional marriage” as the Catholic Church defines it encourage that stability.

 

[Elric]

These are your own words.

Yes they are.

If your opinion is different, enlighten us.

Different to that statement?

No its not different to that statement, what are you getting at?

You claim I/we don’t know your opinion. Why don’t you share it and its reasoning with us all?

I already have.

Personally, I believe you’ve painted yourself into a corner and now only speak doublespeak by answering questions with questions.

Well that is your choice, it doesnt make it true though.

 

[Elric]

ELRIC-

Did you read this post???
This might explain where some of us are coming from.

Yes I did read it. It was very well thought out.

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

Yes I did read it. It was very well thought out.

OK.
I just wanted to make sure…it sounded like you were a bit confused at where some of us were coming from. I thought it explained it pretty well

 

[Elric]

Link to something showing this please? I have found articles where couples have attempted to go and been barred and statements from the ACLU that the Catholic school system is likely within its rights as a religious organization but not where any have sued a Catholic school system for this and won.

I have actually seen an example of this.

There was a documentry made some time ago about a homosexual student at a cathloic school who wanted to take his boyfriend as his date to the school prom. When the school said no, he took them through the grievence process which eventuated in his sueing the school to get his way.

The terms “respect” and “disrespect” was used frequently by the student, unfortunatly they were not used in reference to how he was treating the school or its beliefs.

Personally I was appaled by his actions and his arrogence.

I cant remember the name of the documentry but it was set in Canada.

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

Link to something showing this please? I have found articles where couples have attempted to go and been barred and statements from the ACLU that the Catholic school system is likely within its rights as a religious organization but not where any have sued a Catholic school system for this and won.

lifesite.net/ldn/2004/jun/04060909.html
*The Durham Catholic District School Board (DCDSB) has issued a clarification of its position in the Marc Hall case after the airing of the made-for-TV movie which it says “took serious liberties with reality.” In the spring of 2002, Marc Hall, a grade 12 student at Msgr. John Pereyma Catholic Secondary School in Oshawa, won a court battle that forced the Durham Catholic District School Board to allow him to bring his homosexual date to the prom. *

 

[whatevergirl]

I don’t view same sex unions as being marriage. Marriage itself shouldn’t be redefined because once that boundary starts stretching past the initial definition…who knows where it will end?

But that being said–a same sex union is no different than two heterosexual people having a civil marriage, without having a Sacramental one. (from a Catholic perspective only) You are not married in the eyes of God. So why do so many Catholics get upset if a man ‘marries’ a man? Is it any different if he simply moves in with his partner…and doesn’t get married…and is that any different than a heterosexual couple marrying outside of the Catholic Church? Would God view this differently? My husband and I were married by a JOP once upon a time, and until our marriage was blessed in the Catholic Church, our marriage was not a marriage in the eyes of God. If gay people cannot ever receive such a Sacrament…why does it matter?

I’m not being naive, or trying to argue…I’m trying to understand why many Catholics make the distinction. You may reply…homosexuality is a sin. So, is a Catholic heterosexual couple being married outside of the Church.


Disclaimer–I’m not a proponent of SS marriage/union. But, if you are Catholic–there are plenty of heterosexual couples marrying outside of the Church, so to look at homosexual unions any other way is a head scratcher. Possibly a parallel that heterosexals do not want to see, but it is one you cannot deny. I also know that never ever will a gay couple be able to receive a Sacramental marriage within the RCC. If that ever changes, I think we will have a reason to be angry…because that would go against everything the Church is about. But, we are talking about civil unions.

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

I don’t view same sex unions as being marriage. Marriage itself shouldn’t be redefined because once that boundary starts stretching past the initial definition…who knows where it will end?

But that being said–a same sex union is no different than two heterosexual people having a civil marriage, without having a Sacramental one. (from a Catholic perspective only) You are not married in the eyes of God. So why do so many Catholics get upset if a man ‘marries’ a man? Is it any different if he simply moves in with his partner…and doesn’t get married…and is that any different than a heterosexual couple marrying outside of the Catholic Church? Would God view this differently? My husband and I were married by a JOP once upon a time, and until our marriage was blessed in the Catholic Church, our marriage was not a marriage in the eyes of God. If gay people cannot ever receive such a Sacrament…why does it matter?

I’m not being naive, or trying to argue…I’m trying to understand why many Catholics make the distinction. You may reply…homosexuality is a sin. So, is a Catholic heterosexual couple being married outside of the Church.


Disclaimer–I’m not a proponent of SS marriage/union. But, if you are Catholic–there are plenty of heterosexual couples marrying outside of the Church, so to look at homosexual unions any other way is a head scratcher. Possibly a parallel that heterosexals do not want to see, but it is one you cannot deny. I also know that never ever will a gay couple be able to receive a Sacramental marriage within the RCC. If that ever changes, I think we will have a reason to be angry…because that would go against everything the Church is about. But, we are talking about civil unions.

WG-

A civil union does not guarantee all the same rights to a couple as a marriage does. That is why people are pushing for the term “marriage” to be used to describe what they have.

It basically is just not good enough for them (homosexuals), they want it all

 

[Teen4Christ]

WG-

A civil union does not guarantee all the same rights to a couple as a marriage does. That is why people are pushing for the term “marriage” to be used to describe what they have.

It basically is just not good enough for them (homosexuals), they want it all

We want equal unions you silly girl.

 

[whatevergirl]

WG-

A civil union does not guarantee all the same rights to a couple as a marriage does. That is why people are pushing for the term “marriage” to be used to describe what they have.

I talked about this thread with my dh (why he won’t join ugh!) and he said this very thing. But, should people who are considered sinners by the public, not be allowed the rights as…other sinners? See, the logic is flawed. I understand the reason against same sex unions…I do. I don’t think we can use ‘it’s a sin’ though, on one hand…and ‘they will get the same benefits as us,’ as the reason on the other.

The only way to ‘win’ such a battle, for lack of a better word…is to simply say that for same sex unions to make sense–we in society, need to redefine marriage. And, that’s where the danger begins. But, calling it a sin…(which it is) isn’t going to change anything, because the ‘state’ isn’t concerned with sin. The Church is…and then, that’s a whole different debate.

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

We want equal unions you silly girl.