same sex marriage question for all faiths.

[CMatt25]

I support people’s right to do a lot of things I think are sinful. Do I think they’re right to do them? Of course not! But since my political philosophy is libertarian, and utterly opposed to theocracy and theonomy, I oppose making illegal any personal behavior that doesn’t cause direct, demonstrable harm to others. Are they right to commit sins? No. But do they have the right to, in a political sense? Yep!

Probably not what you expect to hear from a member of a conservative, evangelical, Pentecostal church. But my party affiliation is Libertarian.

No not necessarily what I would have expected. But as a liberal who lives in a democracy of plural beliefs and not in a theocracy and who supports civil rights, my :tiphat: off to you and I :clapping: God bless you and peace.

 

[CMatt25]

Very nice. Do they claim to be Christian or is just a group that tries to practice positive ethics?

 

[Lokabrenna]

No, you’d be a good systems theorist!

Then I guess it’s good that I’m neither a systems theorist nor much of a philosopher. I suppose ACrusader’s argument just rubbed me the wrong way.It’s perfectly understandable, that’s what happens when different belief systems interact.

 

[rinnie]

Hi Rinnie: Where in your scriptures do you see Jesus telling you to hate sin? I see Him telling you to avoid sin, but I don’t see Him saying to hate anything, but maybe you can point that out for me. Since I am here trying to learn and perhaps understand Christianity a little better, this issue might be of help to me.

Your friend,
Sufjon

Hi Sufjon how are you? Sorry it took me so long, its summer and we have SO much to do. Taking care of my Mom, completely gutting a house and helping my husband re-do it. Trying to get my house cleaned and work on top of that! Makes one wonder what I do in my SPARE TIME huh?

Here it is my dear.

Go to Proverbs 6:16 It tells you the 7 sins that God HATES. Those are I believe you will agree with me all sins.

So take a look my Love, hope that helps.

 

[hosemonkey]

a group trying to practice positive ethics. But a religion without dogma and a faith community which is accepting and in which they encourage each other to live out their faith questions with the answers of love, peace and compassion for their fellow human beings. They take from various faith traditions. Christ’s words of love, peace, and compassion for those less fortunate are not limted to Christians. Many faiths practice the Golden Rule. Peace.

I find it ironic that a group that supports such high ideals would not disapprove of a practice and a perversion that has caused so much misery in the world and has caused the death of millions. The practices of the “gay” community spread the AIDS scourge worldwide and their refusal to recognize their culpability in this spread so that they could continue their disgusting “lifestyle” shows the truly selfish and irresponsible nature of their sickness. Now they would attempt, through their campaign to gain the right of legal marriage, to convince the normal population that their sickness is merely another “lifestyle” and their “civil rights” are being denied.

 

[Acrusader]

Yes, I support same-sex marriage, as does the congregation to which I belong and the association to which our congregation belongs. As it happens, same-sex marriages are performed in our congregations.

No, I don’t consider it a sin, because I don’t believe in the concept of sin. I certainly don’t believe in a dogmatic delineation of something considered a sin even if I were not cognizant of it.

Therefore, I could not consider something sinful, whether or not I personally support it, because the concept is a foreign one and not part of my sprituality.

Peace,

Seeker

It’s disgusting… Have you ever kissed a person of the same sex as you, or thought you could be attracted to him?
Logically speaking, there is something wrong here.
Some people may accepted, or don;t have a problem with that, but it doesn’t means it’s correct.

 

[Lokabrenna]

It’s disgusting… Have you ever kissed a person of the same sex as you, or thought you could be attracted to him?
Logically speaking, there is something wrong here.
Some people may accepted, or don;t have a problem with that, but it doesn’t means it’s correct.

Nope, I’ve never kissed anyone, not other women, or men, or intersex, or trans, or anyone at all, as a matter of fact, but I am attracted to both men and women. Perhaps you might think it’s disgusting, but that’s okay, you just don’t swing that way. It’s perfectly understandable. I don’t expect you to understand why someone might be attracted to the same sex.

And before you assume that I’m a promiscuous degenerate for playing for both teams, I’m a virgin, never even dated in high school or through five years of college.

I’m going to go back to my dark corner of the net now.

 

[hosemonkey]

Nope, I’ve never kissed anyone, not other women, or men, or intersex, or trans, or anyone at all, as a matter of fact, but I am attracted to both men and women. Perhaps you might think it’s disgusting, but that’s okay, you just don’t swing that way. It’s perfectly understandable. I don’t expect you to understand why someone might be attracted to the same sex.

And before you assume that I’m a promiscuous degenerate for playing for both teams, I’m a virgin, never even dated in high school or through five years of college.

Maybe you need to get out more.

 

[Lokabrenna]

Maybe you need to get out more.

Eventually I will, but I need a steady job first, complete independence doesn’t grow on trees!

 

[CMatt25]

I find it ironic that a group that supports such high ideals would not disapprove of a practice and a perversion that has caused so much misery in the world and has caused the death of millions. The practices of the “gay” community spread the AIDS scourge worldwide and their refusal to recognize their culpability in this spread so that they could continue their disgusting “lifestyle” shows the truly selfish and irresponsible nature of their sickness. Now they would attempt, through their campaign to gain the right of legal marriage, to convince the normal population that their sickness is merely another “lifestyle” and their “civil rights” are being denied.

 

[Publisher]

hosemonkey;8000734:

Well I’m no expert but I’m pretty sure AIDS is not limited to gays. And I suppose in a secular democratic society of plural beliefs an argument has been made that their rights are being denied. Peace Hosemonkey.

Not to mention that the largest group of people that suffer from AIDS are straight…it is caused by the exchange of bodily fuids…usually through sexual contact…it is not a “gay” disease…but a disease that effects all walks and sexual orientations.

About a year before my mom died…she asked me if lesbians got AIDS since they too were gay…her sister…a Pentacostal told her AIDS was God’s punishment for homosexuality…I told her “Well, then lesbians must be God’s chosen people as AIDS was almost unknown among them…the exceptions those that are bi-sexual and those that use intravenious drugs.”…My mom looked at me with a look of shock…“You mean…lesbians don’t get AIDS for being gay!!!” After a moment she looked a tme and said…“Well…that hardly seems fair!!!”

AIDS is an equal opportunity disease…so many some forget that.

 

[Sufjon]

Nope, I’ve never kissed anyone, not other women, or men, or intersex, or trans, or anyone at all, as a matter of fact, but I am attracted to both men and women. Perhaps you might think it’s disgusting, but that’s okay, you just don’t swing that way. It’s perfectly understandable. I don’t expect you to understand why someone might be attracted to the same sex.

And before you assume that I’m a promiscuous degenerate for playing for both teams, I’m a virgin, never even dated in high school or through five years of college.

I’m going to go back to my dark corner of the net now.

My opinion is that this is one of the darker corners of the net. You’ll find too many people so eager to pontificate that they lose sight of the humanity of the people they’re talking to. Anyway, whether you like men, women or both, I hope you find happiness with one of them someday.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Sufjon]

Hi Sufjon how are you? Sorry it took me so long, its summer and we have SO much to do. Taking care of my Mom, completely gutting a house and helping my husband re-do it. Trying to get my house cleaned and work on top of that! Makes one wonder what I do in my SPARE TIME huh?

Here it is my dear.

Go to Proverbs 6:16 It tells you the 7 sins that God HATES. Those are I believe you will agree with me all sins.

So take a look my Love, hope that helps.

Hi Rinnie: I hope you’re taking it easy on your house gutting project. I have another question. I had thought that this proverb contained the words of Solomon. Was this Solomon or God saying that God hates these deadly sins?

Thanks
Sufjon

 

[seeker57]

It’s disgusting… Have you ever kissed a person of the same sex as you, or thought you could be attracted to him?
Logically speaking, there is something wrong here.
Some people may accepted, or don;t have a problem with that, but it doesn’t means it’s correct.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but in many cultures, men often kiss each other. It was and still is acceptable.

As for being attracted to people of the same sex, have you never looked at a man or woman, depending which you are, and thought that he or she was very attractive?

That doesn’t mean you want to hop in the sack with them, just that you found them attractive.

I know many gay men who drool over the images of Elizabeth Taylor and other famous women. They had no intention of bedding them, but beauty is beauty.

Peace.

Seeker

 

[seeker57]

I find it ironic that a group that supports such high ideals would not disapprove of a practice and a perversion that has caused so much misery in the world and has caused the death of millions. The practices of the “gay” community spread the AIDS scourge worldwide and their refusal to recognize their culpability in this spread so that they could continue their disgusting “lifestyle” shows the truly selfish and irresponsible nature of their sickness. Now they would attempt, through their campaign to gain the right of legal marriage, to convince the normal population that their sickness is merely another “lifestyle” and their “civil rights” are being denied.

 

[seeker57]

hosemonkey;7998992:

Hosemonkey, from what I understand they believe in love and peace, in social justice and compassion. In reason and discourse as means to seeking truth.

In the inherent worth and dignity of every person. In encouraging spiritual growth. In the right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within their congregations and in society. They believe in the goal of world peace, liberty,and justice for all.

I actually greatly respect their tolerance and as a Christian I can not help but to have the utmost respect and appreciation for their belief in social justice as Christ Himself spoke of in Matt 25:35-45.

I hope this helped and Seeker does not mind me fielding the question. I don’t believe I am too far off base. But Seeker can make corrections if needed or can add more.

Peace.

Thanks Matt, you explained it quite well.

Peace,

Seeker

 

[CMatt25]

CMatt25;7999107:

Thanks Matt, you explained it quite well.

Peace,

Seeker

No problem Seeker. It wasn’t all that difficult. It’s sorta amazing what can be learned with just a little seeking along with open hearts, open minds… oh wait that’s the UMC.

Seriously, peace to you as well and for the work you do, blessings always.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Avoiding sin is one thing. Hating it is another. Hate is hate. It is probably unhelpful to spiritual development to introduce hate into your being. Hating something is probably on par with the thing being hated in itself.

Your friend
Sufjon

God says we must avoid the counselor of the ungodly. This is the guide for us to avoid sinning. We don’t have to hate anyone just avoid mingle with them. we should not be involved in anything with them. That is all we got to do. Many in teh Church has decided for themselves that they should get together with those outside the Church in many issues completing ignoring the instructions of Gof for HIs people. We will suffer the consequences as it is happening today. What God has done in the past He will also do it today to us. I have no doubt. The people of God is to be separated from the world, we have disobeyed this instruction and will par for it.

 

[exnihilo]

As others mentioned, you are way off the mark here. I, frankly, am astonished at your ignorance regarding this subject…

It is true that in the United States, the first cases of what later was called AIDS were found among gay men.

Purported facts put forth by our own health agencies tend to disagree with the idea you put forth and support the idea you are criticizing. First lets acknowledge that this is a very political disease. There is lots of money at stake and there is a huge incentive to paint this as a disease anyone can get and not transmitted by what used to be considered immoral lifestyles.

cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/basic.htm#exposure

According to the CDC the number one mode of transmission in the US is gay male sex. In fact this is larger than ‘heterosexual contact’ by four times. Given that gay male sex is much less common than heterosexual contact this disparity is very significant.

According to the CDC women represent 25% of infections. According to the same report women engaged in high risk sexual contract get HIV more often than men.

cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5739a2.htm

This shows men most efficiently transmit the disease, but they receive it least efficiently via heterosexual contact. Given these facts the most likely way women are getting the disease is through sex with men who are having sex with men.

But, within a few years, it was quite obvious it was not a bigoted virus and that anyone, even heterosexuals, were being infected.

On a global scale, the impact of the virus is much different than you are insinuating. In fact, in many parts of Africa, only heterosexuals get HIV.

In Asia, it is often found among female sex workers. In Eastern Europe, it is found in both the gay and straight populations, and there are orphanages filled with AIDS babies.

Minorities are the segments of the population now being most affected, including Native Americans, Hispanics and African Americans.

Actually by the standard use of the term ‘bigoted’ HIV is very much a bigoted virus. Again according to the CDC the rate of infection is highest in Blacks, then Hispanics, then Whites. According to the CDC:

‘Blacks/African Americans are the racial/ethnic group most affected by HIV. Blacks/African Americans represent approximately 12% of the US population, but account for almost half of all new HIV infection’.

Minorities are the segments of the population now being most affected, including Native Americans, Hispanics and African Americans.

Your own words contradict your earlier claim that the disease is not bigoted.

On a global scale, the impact of the virus is much different than you are insinuating. In fact, in many parts of Africa, only heterosexuals get HIV.

This is highly doubtful. First one should be amazed that Africa in its poverty and lack of resources can somehow perform the expensive medical test of HIV diagnosis. What one learns upon investigation is that Africa very often classifies many sicknesses as HIV/AIDS with no tests performed. There is a political incentive in that they receive money from the West to combat the disease and it helps to combat the truth that HIV is mostly spread through gay male sex.

An unanswerable question is how HIV can transmit mostly by gay male sex in the US but mostly through heterosexual sex in Africa. You say anyone over 20 should know how a retrovirus works. Well then please explain how on different contents this virus chooses different modes of transmission. I’m over 20 and quite frankly cant understand that.

 

[Sufjon]

God says we must avoid the counselor of the ungodly. This is the guide for us to avoid sinning. We don’t have to hate anyone just avoid mingle with them. we should not be involved in anything with them. That is all we got to do. Many in teh Church has decided for themselves that they should get together with those outside the Church in many issues completing ignoring the instructions of Gof for HIs people. We will suffer the consequences as it is happening today. What God has done in the past He will also do it today to us. I have no doubt. The people of God is to be separated from the world, we have disobeyed this instruction and will par for it.

Each person pays what he or she will have to pay, and will reap accordingly. The world is no worse now than at any other time. It is as it has always been. Only the acts and he actors have changed. People look fondly at the past because they know the outcome. This is not known about present times, so it always seems worse. If you think you will suffer for your life in the afterlife, then one will indeed suffer in the afterlife. Your state of mind at the time of death is your state of being. It will not change just because you died, or at some point had this sacrament or that. You create your state of being with the help of God’s grace, which you must enlist continually. This is why the Lord says to be sure and think of Him at the time of Death, so that you can be closer to Him in the afterlife. To prepare for this, He recommends that you think of Him always throughout your life, and thinking of Him at the time of death will come naturally. This is why we chant His name in all that we do.

Your friend
Sufjon