you Keep grabbing for straws. In nowhere in hte Bible or OT one see this abomination of homosexual is accepted by God.That is a charicature of what is believed…what does “abomination” mean in Hebrew…what are the word meanings it carries with it? When used in the “clobber verses” does it carry with it the connotation of “deadly sin”?
What else is called an “abomination” in Leviticus…but Christians have no problem embracing these “abominations” and probably as you read this…you are practicing an “abomination” as you sit…something clearly condemend in Leviticus as “abomination”.
Intersting word study by the way concerning “abomination”…
You are correct…it does not…there are passages which do address the termination of pregnancies…if a man causes a woman to miscarry…he must pay a monetary settlement…IF the woman is not harmed fatally that is.Yes, and the Bible does not contain specific condemnations of abortion using modern terminology for that, either (“thou shalt not use thine power of reproductive freedom to terminate thine pregnancy…”), so that must mean that the jury is out on that, too.
What a bunch of bologna.
The world promotes sin. The world as we see with governments with no obligation to God is going to just what the enemy wants.my niece, and her same sex partner have planned a committment ceremony tomorrow and my family is split we are all catholic’s and half of my family is not going to be inattendance, nobody is shutting them out of our lives, just not agreeing with the moral implictions that could jeopardize our relationship with God…her mother my sister feels she needs to support her daughter regardless of what the Church teaches,I know I just need to pray for them ,it seems to be a common issue now, for families to have someone in there family with this anamoly…is the popular culture prevailing and attitudes changing???
Yeah. so what God tought His people then, it is not applicable to us today because we are much smarter than God is in those days? gotcha you.You are correct…it does not…there are passages which do address the termination of pregnancies…if a man causes a woman to miscarry…he must pay a monetary settlement…IF the woman is not harmed fatally that is.
Modern reproductive rights extended to women do so in viewing women as self determining equals with men…something which was unknown in ancient times…the woman was “owned” by the father…then once the “bride price” was paid by the prospective husband…she was “owned” by the husband.
A very different culture and understanding…I know of few people who would wish to impose other ancient beliefs and understanding on us as modern people.
IMO…and was the case for me…once I got to know gay people…as people…and not “things” like “disorderd” or “abominations” or “perverts”…I found there was very little difference between us…with our growing understanding of human sexuality it became impossible for me to exclude them from my life of the life of the Meeting I attened.my niece, and her same sex partner have planned a committment ceremony tomorrow and my family is split we are all catholic’s and half of my family is not going to be inattendance, nobody is shutting them out of our lives, just not agreeing with the moral implictions that could jeopardize our relationship with God…her mother my sister feels she needs to support her daughter regardless of what the Church teaches,I know I just need to pray for them ,it seems to be a common issue now, for families to have someone in there family with this anamoly…is the popular culture prevailing and attitudes changing???
Friend…your caricature of what you assert I said…and what actually was said smaks of irony to me…God also is to have commanded us to not bear false witness…do you feel by this post you have lived up to the letter…as well as the spirit of the command?Yeah. so what God tought His people then, it is not applicable to us today because we are much smarter than God is in those days? gotcha you.
I dont think your understanding of God is the same as mine. what can i say?Friend…your caricature of what you assert I said…and what actually was said smaks of irony to me…God also is to have commanded us to not bear false witness…do you feel by this post you have lived up to the letter…as well as the spirit of the command?
I’d be interested in reading your answer.
Let’s try this another way…do you really believe I was trying to convey the meaning you claimed in your post back to me? Did your response speak out of that Center of Light and Truth AS YOU UNDERSTAND Light and Truth? Did your statement conform to the Catholic understanding of “bearing false witness against your neightbor”…just curious.I dont think your understanding of God is the same as mine. what can i say?
I’m not seeing anything in this or any other post that justifies baby murder.You are correct…it does not…there are passages which do address the termination of pregnancies…if a man causes a woman to miscarry…he must pay a monetary settlement…IF the woman is not harmed fatally that is.
Modern reproductive rights extended to women do so in viewing women as self determining equals with men…something which was unknown in ancient times…the woman was “owned” by the father…then once the “bride price” was paid by the prospective husband…she was “owned” by the husband.
A very different culture and understanding…I know of few people who would wish to impose other ancient beliefs and understanding on us as modern people.
I don’t think that anyone would disagree with you that gay people aren’t very much different from straight people. They breathe, eat, sleep, feel, have emotions, desires just like the rest of us…the difference, they act out their desires with people of the same sex. That is the issue. That act in itself is disordered and not part of God’s plan.IMO…and was the case for me…once I got to know gay people…as people…and not “things” like “disorderd” or “abominations” or “perverts”…I found there was very little difference between us…with our growing understanding of human sexuality it became impossible for me to exclude them from my life of the life of the Meeting I attened.
Supporting our children carries a great weight of responsibility with it…it is good to pray for all concerned in this matter.
Peace to you friend.I’m not seeing anything in this or any other post that justifies baby murder.
Appealing to a “different culture and understanding” is a nice way to try to make being spineless seem like a virtue. It’s a shame that those who need you because they cannot defend themselves are also in a multitude of different cultures, some of which may exacerbate their problems (e.g., the Islamic cultures, where it is not all that fun to be a non-Muslim; various traditional cultures where women are married and childbearing before they are emotionally or physically ready to do so, leading to all sorts of horrible, life-destroying problems). I can guarantee that the people who are pinned in place by the sharp end of your “cultural understanding” would love to have someone educate them, free them from being baby factories starting at 12 years of age, not have to work demeaning and debilitating physical labor as soon as they can walk, etc. There is a fine line to walk when addressing all of these sensitive issues (generally speaking, having some white person come in to rural Ethiopia to tell everyone they’re going to hell for practicing child marriage is not the way to do it), but it is a dangerous farce of “caring” to embrace a sort of “noble savage” attitude or mirage of “cultural sensitivity” in the face of millions of dead babies, enslaved women treated as chattel, massacred religious/ethnic/linguistic minorities, and all the other problems of the world that aren’t solved by weaseling out of taking a firm position that some things are just wrong, regardless of who practices them.
Summary version: If you are any kind of Christian or decent human being, grow a damn spine!
"So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth."
The meaning of “abomination” in Hebrew varies according to what it refers to: it may range from “ritually improper” to “condemnatory.” The application of the Hebrew word to a given activity is a tricky business. That is why many in the Reform branch of Judaism dismiss most of the “abominations” mentioned in the Hebrew Bible as not deadly sins, and have constructed an argument that homosexuality is no more than improper, if even this is accepted since Reform Jews do not practice most of the commandments. In fact, even Torah Judaism can hardly justify the prohibition of female homosexuality as an abomination without appealing to a broader contextual interpretation, whereas male homosexuality is explicitly cited. A larger issue–as pointed out by Kaninchen–is whether non-Jews are, according to Mosaic Law, forbidden to engage in homosexual practices since they are required to follow only the Noahide Law at best. This relates, Publisher, to what you mention regarding other so-called abominations that Christians may engage in. From the Jewish perspective, many of these behaviors are not abominations for non-Jews, but are so for Jews. A double standard? You bet. However, it has a theological underpinning in that the “Chosen People” are given the extra responsibility of setting an example for the rest of the world, not that they are better or holier by means of any special merit of their own, but rather due to the grace given by G-d to inspire others toward more virtuous lives. In the final analysis, any condemnation of homosexuality for Christians must be found in the Gospels as well as Church tradition rather than in the Hebrew Bible; otherwise one may arguably be accused of cherry-picking.That is a charicature of what is believed…what does “abomination” mean in Hebrew…what are the word meanings it carries with it? When used in the “clobber verses” does it carry with it the connotation of “deadly sin”?
What else is called an “abomination” in Leviticus…but Christians have no problem embracing these “abominations” and probably as you read this…you are practicing an “abomination” as you sit…something clearly condemend in Leviticus as “abomination”.
Intersting word study by the way concerning “abomination”…
Answer the question? Does my understanding of God negate what you believe is “bearing false witness”? In your understanding of honesty, truth, and holiness…did your post conform to those precepts which you and your church embrace?I dont think your understanding of God is the same as mine. what can i say?
No friend. you can use modern terms and words but the Truth is Truth, it will not change.Let’s try this another way…do you really believe I was trying to convey the meaning you claimed in your post back to me? Did your response speak out of that Center of Light and Truth AS YOU UNDERSTAND Light and Truth? Did your statement conform to the Catholic understanding of “bearing false witness against your neightbor”…just curious.
Actually Paul is addressing the ancient practice of pedastry…an older man accepting sexual favors from a younger man in exchange for “sponsorship” in society. The Jerusalem Bible I believe uses the word to denote “boy prostitute”…in this light Paul was not addressing committed loving same sex relationships between two consenting adults…he is addressing an expoitive institution prevelant in the ancient world…a pagan world.Publisher, you said that in Leviticus it was talking about pagan practices. I already quoted Corinthians where Paul says that men who have sex with men will not inherit the Kingdom of God. This means that if they continue in their sin they will not go to heaven.
I don’t see anywhere where Paul is directing it towards pagan practices or any of the other stuff you previously mentioned. Can you explain your take on that verse? This is an honest question and I am just curious on how you interpret 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.
You do bear false witness to God.Answer the question? Does my understanding of God negate what you believe is “bearing false witness”? In your understanding of honesty, truth, and holiness…did your post conform to those precepts which you and your church embrace?