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Dorothy
Guest
And, love means telling the truth. “Instruct the ignorant”…“admonish the sinner”…why? It is all about our loving God instructing us. Because it is the truth. Tell it lovingly!
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Dorothy
Guest
Starting wars would be wrong. There is a loving way to correct others, for the love of God and their good.
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PbloPicasso
Guest
When ou study salvation history, you find many times God’s children doing all sorts of sinful things. Homosexuality was never spoken positively about by God or His children, Jews and later Christians. The interesting thing is the causes of sin are death, but that death begins in this life. It poisons society as a whole and God allows the gravity of the sin impact His people, which usually lead to a revival, so to speak. I recall one OT story where the men refused to do their part as leaders and the women took over and faught the battles for their people, actually winning battles. It’s been a while since I’ve read that particular story in bible class.
When man fails to stand up for what is truly right in the eyes of God, not man, justice occurs, maybe slowly, over time. We are in the midst of a “great awakening” I sense. Being charitable towards those people struggling with same-sex-attraction, is similar to dealing with a teenager with self-impurity issues. We know it exists and we try not to discuss it for their sake. However, as we mature we have to learn to deal with our own issues. Time to man-up and face the piper. Overly simply put.
People that support same sex "marriage’s support Satan and his evil, probably without really fathoming it, but more likely caused by sin in their own lives.
When man fails to stand up for what is truly right in the eyes of God, not man, justice occurs, maybe slowly, over time. We are in the midst of a “great awakening” I sense. Being charitable towards those people struggling with same-sex-attraction, is similar to dealing with a teenager with self-impurity issues. We know it exists and we try not to discuss it for their sake. However, as we mature we have to learn to deal with our own issues. Time to man-up and face the piper. Overly simply put.
People that support same sex "marriage’s support Satan and his evil, probably without really fathoming it, but more likely caused by sin in their own lives.
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Mamanurse
Guest
“To love our neighbors as ourselves”. If the way I love myself were to assume that anything that I do or have done in my life is without fault or sin, I would be living a lie. I have needed the nudging and guiding and “love” of fellow christians to help bring me back into the fold more than once. Love is not just ignoring the sin and accepting what ever they do is between their God, but it is helping them grow in their faith. If we are all a part of the Body of Christ, how does the infected finger not affect the body as a whole?
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Dorothy
Guest
Amen!
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
kat
They both are in healthy relationships with men. But if they were lesbians I would love them just as much and accept their partners because that is how Christ would act. He is the example I follow when it comes to how I relate to people. Show them God’s love. As an Episcopalian this is our way.
Christ always showed love. He also always showed admonition when that was required.
What you want is Christ’s love without his admonitions.
“Whoever will not receive you or listen to your words–go outside that house or town and shake the dust from your feet. I tell you the truth, the wicked cities of Sodom and Gomorrah will be better off than such a town on the judgment day.” Matthew 10:14
Sodomy is wicked and Jesus was not reluctant to point to the fact. The only thing worse than sodomy is not to listen to the good news that Jesus instructs his apostles to bring to every town.
There seem to be people in this thread who also don’t want to listen to that news, and would like to believe that the love of Jesus is not going to be followed by his judgment.
Love, love, love … by all means. But love without God’s judgment?
That is not Christian. :tsktsk:
They both are in healthy relationships with men. But if they were lesbians I would love them just as much and accept their partners because that is how Christ would act. He is the example I follow when it comes to how I relate to people. Show them God’s love. As an Episcopalian this is our way.
Christ always showed love. He also always showed admonition when that was required.
What you want is Christ’s love without his admonitions.
“Whoever will not receive you or listen to your words–go outside that house or town and shake the dust from your feet. I tell you the truth, the wicked cities of Sodom and Gomorrah will be better off than such a town on the judgment day.” Matthew 10:14
Sodomy is wicked and Jesus was not reluctant to point to the fact. The only thing worse than sodomy is not to listen to the good news that Jesus instructs his apostles to bring to every town.
There seem to be people in this thread who also don’t want to listen to that news, and would like to believe that the love of Jesus is not going to be followed by his judgment.
Love, love, love … by all means. But love without God’s judgment?
That is not Christian. :tsktsk:
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lazydaisy67
Guest
The answer is YES. The “popular culture” certainly has changed and has clearly come to a consensus that the gay lifestyle is perfectly acceptable. It has nothing whatsoever to do with what’s in the Bible. I think in your family’s situation the mother feels like she has to support the daughter because she’s afraid that if she doesn’t, the daughter will shut her out of her life. That could happen, and it would be sad to say the least. But is it better to support, i.e. act like it’s all hunky dory, than to stand up for what you believe? The mother is not in control of her daughter’s choices. As a mother of 5, I know that I can teach my kids how to live according to God’s teachings, but ultimately, my kids have to make their own choices in life. I DON’T have to support those choices by lowering my standards to appease them. If my daughter came to me and said “Hey, guess what? I’m having a commitment ceremony with my female partner, will you come?” I’d say no, sorry. I don’t support that lifestyle and I won’t come. That’s not being mean, it’s not being unloving, it’s just truth and fortitude to stand up for what I think is right even when faced with a backlash for doing so. I don’t have to scream at her that she’s going to hell. I would certainly welcome her (my daughter) into my home, but I have the right to set ground rules for my own life without apologizing to anybody for it. I’d say the same thing to my kids if I found out they were living with somebody outside of marriage. I’d tell them that it was wrong and I don’t support it. They may or may not continue to do it, but at least I’ve made my position crystal clear and from that point forward they are in change of making those choices for their own life. I don’t have the power to “save” anybody. Only God can do that. I do have the power to maintain a backbone and stand up for what I think is right. I don’t have to apologize for believing in God, or His rules even when it completely goes against “society’s” rules. I think it goes well beyond the ‘two people who love each other and who are in a committed relationship’ argument. That’s trying to get us to say"oh well if they LOVE each other, then it must be ok with God". Um, I don’t think so. Just because a person LOVES to do something doesn’t make it ok with God. It’s also neat to say “I was born this way” which conveniently takes all the burden of choice off their shoulders. I haven’t to date seen any scientific study that has identified a “gay gene”. I also find it extremely difficult to believe that God would “create” somebody to do what He finds to be an abomination.
Bottom line, LOVE them but HATE what they’re doing. I’d say exactly the same thing about an alcoholic, and drug addict, a prostitute, a thief, an adulterer whatever. Loving somebody and treating them with kindness and respect, is not equal to supporting their choices. Never, ever be ashamed to stand up for God. You will not stand in judgement before THEM when you die, you will stand in front of GOD.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
You are right. people today seemed to have forgot that Jesus did not accept sins. Jesus told the woman: go and sin no more. everyone who came to Him had to repent of their sins and do no more. A person is not to remain in sin. It seems that a new kind of love is preached here, this is not the love that God preaches. this new love teaches to the acceptance of the sins of others.
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Kristin234
Guest
I understand that, but Paul’s writings were inspired by the holy spirit, so ultimately those are Christ’s words. The way I read that statement it feels like you are saying that since Paul never met Jesus we shouldn’t really take into consideration what he said.
I’m not saying don’t love them, and that is certainly not what Paul said. He said restore them gently. We are always supposed to show love for others. I don’t think anyone on here is saying hate them. There is a difference between loving and respecting someone and telling them what they are doing is wrong. God himself hates sin. in 1John it says God punishes the sinner and hates all who do iniquity. God sees sin as an act of rebellion.
Helping someone out with their sin is an act of love. What isn’t an act of love is sitting back and letting people do whatever they want because you shouldn’t tell people how to live their lives when you know it is wrong.
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sedonaman
Guest
How about for business reasons? Just getting married doesn’t mean you have to have sex … or even love the other person.
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dzheremi
Guest
Business reasons? 
What possible business reasons could there be for homosexual marriage? It’s Victorian-age Europe, your families want to join farms or something, and they don’t have a suitable daughter to betroth to the next land-inheriting male…? 
What possible business reasons could there be for homosexual marriage? It’s Victorian-age Europe, your families want to join farms or something, and they don’t have a suitable daughter to betroth to the next land-inheriting male…?
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stevekehl
Guest
Yes Publisher, we do have a stake in it. Now I don’t see it as my Christian duty to go around telling everyone homosexual activity is a sin, my concern is those who say they are Christian and homosexual. Paul wrote as much, here is one example:
2Ti 4:1 When Christ Jesus comes as king, he will be the judge of everyone, whether they are living or dead. So with God and Christ as witnesses, I command you 2 to preach God’s message. Do it willingly, even if it isn’t the popular thing to do. You must correct people and point out their sins. But also cheer them up, and when you instruct them, always be patient. 3 The time is coming when people won’t listen to good teaching. Instead, they will look for teachers who will please them by telling them only what they are itching to hear. 4 They will turn from the truth and eagerly listen to senseless stories.
If I see two men holding hands at church I don’t have to grill them about their sexuality, but I must address it. I have talked to a few friends about their alcohol consumption, I have talked to a friend about her sexual activity and its effect on her relationship with God. I 'm glad to say these conversations were serious and kind and strengthened the friendships, even though the advice was not always taken. Sharing a meal, getting to know someone is not accepting their lifestyle, but we must be clear that we don’t condone sin.
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rockerchar
Guest
You’re right!
Unfortunately the development of doctrine in the Roman Catholic Church moves very slowly. It will take a long time before human sexuality will be re-understood to account for non-heterosexual love.
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rockerchar
Guest
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John21652
Guest
Maybe you could demonstrate just how the doctrine of the Catholic Church develops very slowly.You’re right!
Unfortunately the development of doctrine in the Roman Catholic Church moves very slowly. It will take a long time before human sexuality will be re-understood to account for non-heterosexual love.
Maybe you can also tell me how long it will be before I can marry my dog?
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dzheremi
Guest
meltzerboy
New member
True, there are sexless and loveless marriages, and neurotic ones as well (e.g. nurturing and dependent spouses). But I would think that what the French call “mariage de convenance” would be a heterosexual marriage, not a homosexual one.
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PbloPicasso
Guest
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minkymurph
Guest
It would appear then without a marriage, it really is a legal minefield.
Yes, that’s one of the strange aspects of human nature - wanting what we can’t have. I call it ‘forbidden fruit syndrome.’ I’ve always said Church attendance would dramatically increase if going to Church was banned. However, once humans are told they can have something, they don’t seem to want it any more. The first civil ceremony in my part of the world ended in divorce in a matter of weeks.
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CMatt25
Guest
New beliefs are not invented, but obscurities and misunderstandings regarding the deposit of faith are cleared up.
For **there is a growth in the understanding **of the realities and the words which have been handed down. This happens through the contemplation and study
As these and many other cases demonstrate, doctrinal questions can remain in a not-yet-fully-defined state for years.
Why didn’t Rome issue a laundry list of definitions in the early days and let it go at that? Why wasn’t an end-run made around all these troubles that plagued Christianity precisely because things were unclear? The remote reason is that God has had his own timetable and set of reasons (to which we aren’t privy) for keeping it.
Why didn’t they understand the fullness of the doctrine of the Trinity all at once? Or the identity of the Messiah? Or the fullness of Christian teaching? Partly because God had not revealed it all yet, and partly because their understanding of the implications of the doctrines they had needed to grow clearer over time.
source: catholic.com/library/Can_Dogma_Develop.asp
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