Same-sex marriage: where does my objection go wrong?

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Stephen168 said:
They are called “reproductive organs” for a reason.
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And sex doesn’t necessarily mean 'reproductive sex."
Stephen168 said:
Marriage is marriage no matter how badly you want to differentiate the two. Of course you don’t define terms, so you haven’t been able to even differentiate the two.
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The distinction is well understood – you just want to pretend it isn’t there.
 
spencelo said:
Wait a second: marriage between a 40 yr old and a 10 yr old counts as “pedophilia marriage” if the 10 yr old can’t reproduce but doesn’t if the 10 yr old can reproduce? So marriages between adults and children are okay so long as children have the ability to procreate? Is this what you’re saying?
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What I’m saying is marriage is an organic part of human nature where children are raised. Of course raising children presupposes that children have a very good chance of being created by the participants. This is why same sex unions and pedophile unions are not marriage. Due to the high probability of defective offspring incestous unions are taboo
 
Stephen168 said:
What I’m saying is marriage is an organic part of human nature where children are raised. Of course raising children presupposes that children have a very good chance of being created by the participants. This is why same sex unions and pedophile unions are not marriage. Due to the high probability of defective offspring incestous unions are taboo
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Again, does marriage between a 40 yr old and a 10 yr old count as “pedophilia marriage” if the 10 yr old can reproduce? Yes or no?
 
Stephen168 said:
Explain it to us. Define your terms
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No explanation necessary, because you already understand that the two aren’t the same (even though you pretend otherwise). A simple google search of the term would suffice.
 
spencelo said:
No explanation necessary, because you already understand that the two aren’t the same (even though you pretend otherwise). A simple google search of the term would suffice.
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They have exactly the same meaning. The only difference between them is where the paperwork is signed at inception. The marriages are exactly the same. They have been the same since governments recognized marriage. The have been the same since religions recognized marriage. They are the same
 
Stephen168 said:
They have exactly the same meaning.
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No they don’t – atheists can get married too, in case you didn’t know. Same-sex couples aren’t fighting for the right to marry in churches. If you look up the term “civil marriage” and compare it with the Catholic understanding of marriage, the two are entirely different, although you are free the pretend otherwise.
 
fix said:
Yes, that is why it is called the marital embrace. Other acts are a deviation from that. In the past they were called perverted sex acts. They still are.
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Your religious opinion that all non-penis-vagina sex is “perverted” is noted, but irrelevant. Anal-sex, for example, is still sex - whether you believe it to be perverted or not.
 
spencelo said:
No they don’t – atheists can get married too, in case you didn’t know.
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I know they can and their marriage is no different than marriage has been since the beginning of man.
Marriage is an organic part of human nature where children are raised. Of course raising children presupposes that children have a very good chance of being created by the participants. This is why same sex unions and pedophile unions are not marriage. Due to the high probability of defective offspring incestous unions are taboo
 
Stephen168 said:
I know they can and their marriage is no different than marriage has been since the beginning of man.
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Let me get this straight: are you equating civil marriage with Catholic marriage? Yes or no?
Stephen168 said:
Marriage is an organic part of human nature where children are raised. Of course raising children presupposes that children have a very good chance of being created by the participants. This is why same sex unions and pedophile unions are not marriage. Due to the high probability of defective offspring incestous unions are taboo
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I still don’t understand what you mean by “pedophile unions.” Does marriage between a 40 yr old and a 10 yr old count as “pedophilia marriage” if the 10 yr old **can **reproduce? Yes or no?
 
spencelo said:
I keep explaining that this is the wrong question. The question is: are same-sex couples being treated equally under the law when they are excluded from civil marriage?
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I cannot answer this question until we deem what the law is granting. Until you tell us what marriage is, your other arguments have no steam and will elicit no response – though there are very capable responses – since we can’t agree on the FOUNDATIONAL concept.
 
spencelo said:
Let me get this straight: are you equating civil marriage with Catholic marriage? Yes or no?
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Yes,they have exactly the same meaning. The only difference between them is where the paperwork is signed at inception. The marriages are exactly the same. They have been the same since governments recognized marriage. The have been the same since religions recognized marriage. They are the same.
 
spencelo said:
Yes they certainly can – penis-vagina sex isn’t the only kind of sex that exists.

No, that isn’t rational. “Civil marriage” isn’t “religious marriage,” no matter how badly Catholics wish to equate the two.

No, they are not – that is simply a blatant misrepresentation of what we marriage equality proponents are advocating for.

No, but you have gotten through that some Catholics on here (perhaps yourself) wish to hijack language and claim that the term “marriage” can only be used religiously, which simply isn’t the case.
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Understand that I am not trying to argue with you. Just explaining what I see.

Again, with the word “sex” we see that our language differs substantially. I would never consider the other things to be sex or an act of union.

Although we can come to an agreement here about what is civil and what is not, this distinction is not apparent in the hearts of the people or in the laws. I think that causes a great many problems.

I would not say that all gay marriage proponents would advocate for gay marriage within the Church. My point was only that there are some people who do.

Now I know you differ from me on the points of language, but my point is not to force you to accept my language (hijack) but to express my own solid definitions that are in contention with your own so as to express the difficulties that you are having with other people so that you can understand where you objection goes wrong.

It also occurs to me that the other place you objection goes wrong is with regard to culture. America is a big place with many different cultures. Sometimes we clash with one another because we don’t understand one another very well.
 
Stephen168 said:
Yes,they have exactly the same meaning. The only difference between them is where the paperwork is signed at inception. The marriages are exactly the same. They have been the same since governments recognized marriage. The have been the same since religions recognized marriage. They are the same.
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Complete nonsense. The government’s definition is broader that the Catholic Church’s definition. It applies to couples who don’t wish to have children, as well as those who can’t.
 
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