Same Sex Marriage

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PoliSciProf

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I have a niece who has been living with her “partner” for several years. Her state has just legalized same sex “marriage” and it is possible that they will exercise this new “right.” If my wife and I were to get an invitation (and I pray we don’t) to the ceremony I believe that we cannot morally attend but my wife thinks we should attend to support my brother and his family who are practicing Catholics but we think they would in all likelihood attend their daughter’s union. Among the many issues here is the possibility of very deep family rifts. Your comments are welcomed.
 
We had a similar experience about a decade ago. My husband wrote a letter to our family member as to why we were unable to attend. It was a painful time, there were definitely major riffs in the family after that. Time and prayer have healed a lot.
I don’t advise going, but I know it’s a challenging situation. I’m sorry you have to go through this. Prayers for you and your family.
 
There is a forum response to this very question in the Ask a Question forum if you are interested…
I cannot see how you can morally go to this wedding; to do so would imply that you condone this union, which as a Catholic, you cannot.
 
Michelle Arnold, one of the Apologists for this site, has posted a set of guidelines regarding when it is or isn’t appropriate to attend weddings here.

She points out that the church has spoken out so strongly against same sex “marriage” that it wouldn’t be appropriate for a Catholic to attend a same sex “wedding.”

I can’t imagine what a difficult situation that puts you in, should you receive an invitation. Normally I’d say to just tell them you won’t be able to make it and leave it at that, no explanation necessary. But as this is your niece, and you are looking at potentially causing a rift in the family, then you will probably have to explain further. Try to be as loving and charitable as you can be when explaining this. Explain that you love your niece, you love your brother and support them as people, but that you can not support your niece’s decision. Prayers for you.
 
I have been back and forth on this, but I keep coming back to the same conclusion:

If the daughter was marrying her brother, we wouldn’t go, and it wouldn’t matter what state legalized incestuous marriage. If the daughter was marrying some fellow as his third wife, we wouldn’t go, no matter what state or religion thought highly of polygamy.

There gets to be a point where you have to say, “Sally, I love you, I hope you know that, but there are some things that I believe are objectively wrong. It isn’t wrong that you’re a lesbian, but it is wrong for you to engage in a sexual relationship with another woman, and I can’t have a part of a public ratification of that. I’m sorry. I hope you understand.”

The situation where one member in a couple chooses to leave the Church and marry without the benefit of an annulment or in which a couple re-marries after divorce when their church has no understanding of the permanence of marriage or when there is a defect in form in what would otherwise be allowed nuptials is perhaps slightly different, but only if there is some possiblity that the couple is free to marry each other. I have sometimes relented when the parties are free to marry (or might even possibly be free to marry) but one is a Catholic who for some reason has chosen not to marry in the Church. With homosexual marriage and polygamy, though, there is no way it could be valid.
 
Monicad said:
“We love you and we are sorry we can’t make it” is 100% true.
They will probably guess why and it may still cause hard feelings but there is no reason to get into a debate it may even be more hurtful.
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This.

I wouldn’t discuss it, probably no point at this stage. If she ever asked you about your decision and was interested in seriously discussing what the church teaches, that would be a different matter.
 
Perhaps just telling them you cannot attend the wedding itself but would like to have a nice dinner sometime after would be great.
 
PoliSciProf said:
I have a niece who has been living with her “partner” for several years. Her state has just legalized same sex “marriage” and it is possible that they will exercise this new “right.” If my wife and I were to get an invitation (and I pray we don’t) to the ceremony I believe that we cannot morally attend but my wife thinks we should attend to support my brother and his family who are practicing Catholics but we think they would in all likelihood attend their daughter’s union. Among the many issues here is the possibility of very deep family rifts. Your comments are welcomed.
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You really can’t go. You just can’t. What she is doing is seriously sinful, and family rifts or not, you simply can’t show any support for actions such as this.

I’ll be praying for you during this difficult time.
 
Remember when Jesus said that following Him would be hard? That the road is narrow? That we would be persecuted and hated? He was right.
 
PoliSciProf said:
I have a niece who has been living with her “partner” for several years. Her state has just legalized same sex “marriage” and it is possible that they will exercise this new “right.” If my wife and I were to get an invitation (and I pray we don’t) to the ceremony I believe that we cannot morally attend but my wife thinks we should attend to support my brother and his family who are practicing Catholics but we think they would in all likelihood attend their daughter’s union. Among the many issues here is the possibility of very deep family rifts. Your comments are welcomed.
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Your wife is wrong - you support your brother by reminding him that your niece is in sin and that “marrying” is compounding the sin. You support your brother by listening with love as he and your SIL discuss how difficult it is to love their daughter while hating what she is doing. You support them not by attending this ceremony, but by knowing what is right and choosing to do that, instead of doing what is wrong and trying to pretend everything is all right.

Take it a day at a time, you don’t even know if they will have the ceremony or not.
 
If you decide to talk to her about this, I would suggest making sure that she understands what exactly attendance at a marriage ceremony means. Many people see it as a sign of friendship, but in reality it is so much more than that. A wedding ceremony is a public act in which a couple vow themselves to each other in such a way that it is recognized by a particular society. Because of this attending a wedding ceremony is so much more than just an act of friendship or well-wishing to the couple, or even one of the couple, it is a recognition and ratification of the union being made. Many people getting married do not realize this. They take great affront because they see a refusal to attend as an ad hominem attack. However, if they are reasonably mature people, making sure that this distinction is clear, and explaining it in a very loving and kind way can really help them to understand where you are coming from.
 
Personally, if someone had thought our marriage was a mistake, I hoped they chose to stay at home. Perhaps this is why it is allowed to simply send regrets to a wedding invitation without being required to send an excuse? 🤷

Honestly, I guess I could say that, too: “Sally, if you or your parents had thought my marriage was a mistake, I think it would have been better if you had not attended my wedding, either.” So if a reason is not asked for, a reason does not have to be given.
 
I find it difficult to believe all the fear and rigidity demonstrated on this issue. Yes the relationship is sinful, and you cannot support it. I think this is an excellent opportunity to engage in a dialog with your niece on your beliefs, why you believe them, and why they are important. It is absolutely NOT the time to be judgmental and “holy than thou.”

Attending a public ceremony may be viewed as a sign of approval, but if you look at the canons on marriage (not that they apply here, but it is the closest I can come to) the purpose of the other people at the ceremony (other than the presider, bride, and groom) is to be able to testify the event took place. That is why the others who attend are called witnesses and there is a requirement to have at least 2. Strictly speaking it is not to show approval or lack of approval.

When you eventually approach your niece and her family about this, remember when Jesus was found was with the prostitutes and tax collectors.

Some scribes who were Pharisees saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors and said to his disciples, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” Jesus heard this and said to them, “Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do. I did not come to call the righteous but sinners.”(Mk 2:16-17)

*The Pharisees and their scribes complained to his disciples, saying, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?” Jesus said to them in reply, “Those who are healthy do not need a physician, but the sick do. I have not come to call the righteous to repentance but sinners.” * (Lk 5:30-32)

You can love your niece, and even love her partner. You can express your disappointment at their choice to live in a sinful state. That does not mean you have to cut off contact with them, or pretend they don’t exist. Practicing the virtue of charity will go a lot farther in demonstrating to people you really believe what Jesus taught than anything else you can do. I hope if you approach your niece in charity, and explain your situation she will understand your reluctance to attend her event and respect your convictions.
 
Monicad said:
You are not obligated to have a confrontation either…a suggestion may be able to say “I can’t make it” in a nice way is also an option for you. Maybe you don’t feel like confronting them well you don’t have to…simply stated “We love you and we are sorry we can’t make it”
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This is what I would also do.
 
aloe said:
This is what I would also do.
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You are right. An explanation is only in order if it is asked for. Usually I would say that we are bound to say something when there could be ignorance of moral law involved, but I suspect that it is hardly possible that the couple is unaware of the Church’s position concerning the choice that they’re making. If the couple confronts the family member about their decision, however, then one ought to give the true reason.
 
Chances are, the couple already knows what your beliefs are on this subject, and will not invite you. If they do, and expect you to come, they are being very disrespectful of your beliefs.
 
Just don’t go and live with the fact that your niece will hate you for the rest of your sad and bitter life.
 
opus101 said:
Chances are, the couple already knows what your beliefs are on this subject, and will not invite you. If they do, and expect you to come, they are being very disrespectful of your beliefs.
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You cannot fail to invite your close relatives to your wedding unless the relationship has been broken or their intention to refuse your invitation has already been made very clear. When in doubt, you have to ask the rels to come, even if you are afraid of what a pain they may be as guests. Since you have to ask them, you can hope that they will at least refuse discretely. I think confronting someone for discretely refusing a pro forma invitation like that would be a bit impolite, though.
 
gubernova said:
Just don’t go and live with the fact that your niece will hate you for the rest of your sad and bitter life.
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Just like she is going to assume you will hate her for life because her moral choices don’t match yours? She could take that route, but let’s hope not. She has no power to enforce sadness or bitterness onto the people she chooses to shun, at any rate.
 
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